Flattr is closing down (2023) • Hacker News Board

Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#131

Post by skybrian » Thu, Jan 18, 2024, 6:43 PM UTC

freediver wrote: post #127

amadeuspagel wrote: post #13

Flattr is the kind of idea that sounds great, that people love talking about - if only they could make a small donation to every website they liked - but that doesn't work because people are fundamentally too selfish. This is why ads are the only viable business model for a kind of "ephemeral website" - something you visit only briefly, derive some short knowledge or pleasure from until you follow a link somewhere el…

I'd like to push back on this. It is not that people are too selfish, but that there is not much content truly worth paying for. This is because ads proliferated not just creation of giant amounts of content but they also incentivize quantity over quality. Second thing that is holding this back is no seamless way to send a payment from your browser to the website (owner). This has to be native in the browser, user-ce…

Perhaps “truly worth paying for” is setting too high a bar for some kinds of content that people do find useful?

Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#132

Post by Aerbil313 » Thu, Jan 18, 2024, 6:44 PM UTC

mh- wrote: post #74

k__ wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To quote something I literally read 5 minutes ago in "Perhaps the Stars": "everyone has relationships with people far away, who inspire, entertain, role models, and also the people we work so hard for: fans, viewers, the next generation, kids somewhere, posterity. I think those asymmetrical relationships are part of what it means to be human, part of the teamwork. Humanity is teamwork. And the asymmetry doesn’t for a…

I don't know the book beyond the quick google I just did, but I disagree with: >And the asymmetry doesn’t for a second make those relationships any less valid, or less important, or less real. I think that people developing these so-called parasocial relationships is probably not harmful until it becomes a substitute for them developing "real" ones. But I see that growing rapidly, and I think it's a problem in the fu…

Just because you can magically send some digits to someone thousands miles away you never saw IRL doesn’t mean your brain is designed for it nor is able to handle it without disruptions to its operation. Whether you believe in creation or evolution. Nobody lived like this.

Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#133

Post by paulddraper » Thu, Jan 18, 2024, 6:47 PM UTC

freediver wrote: post #127

amadeuspagel wrote: post #13

Flattr is the kind of idea that sounds great, that people love talking about - if only they could make a small donation to every website they liked - but that doesn't work because people are fundamentally too selfish. This is why ads are the only viable business model for a kind of "ephemeral website" - something you visit only briefly, derive some short knowledge or pleasure from until you follow a link somewhere el…

I'd like to push back on this. It is not that people are too selfish, but that there is not much content truly worth paying for. This is because ads proliferated not just creation of giant amounts of content but they also incentivize quantity over quality. Second thing that is holding this back is no seamless way to send a payment from your browser to the website (owner). This has to be native in the browser, user-ce…

> It is not that people are too selfish, but that there is not much content truly worth paying for.

That's two ways of saying the same thing.

But people are (at a much greater rate) willing to pay with ads.

Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#134

Post by dewey » Thu, Jan 18, 2024, 6:50 PM UTC

felixg3 wrote: post #129

dewey wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was looking for someone to mention that. I remember that I wrote parts of the wiki entry on how to donate through Flattr back then!

I think you’ve been my interviewer at what.cd, ~ 2011. Glad to see you here!

Yes, I remember your name (also from last.fm I believe!). Small world!

Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#135

Post by sbarre » Thu, Jan 18, 2024, 6:52 PM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #131

freediver wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to push back on this. It is not that people are too selfish, but that there is not much content truly worth paying for. This is because ads proliferated not just creation of giant amounts of content but they also incentivize quantity over quality. Second thing that is holding this back is no seamless way to send a payment from your browser to the website (owner). This has to be native in the browser, user-ce…

Perhaps “truly worth paying for” is setting too high a bar for some kinds of content that people do find useful?

It's also subjective down to the individual, so how would you even quantify it properly?

Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#136

Post by shon » Thu, Jan 18, 2024, 6:53 PM UTC

freediver wrote: post #127

amadeuspagel wrote: post #13

Flattr is the kind of idea that sounds great, that people love talking about - if only they could make a small donation to every website they liked - but that doesn't work because people are fundamentally too selfish. This is why ads are the only viable business model for a kind of "ephemeral website" - something you visit only briefly, derive some short knowledge or pleasure from until you follow a link somewhere el…

I'd like to push back on this. It is not that people are too selfish, but that there is not much content truly worth paying for. This is because ads proliferated not just creation of giant amounts of content but they also incentivize quantity over quality. Second thing that is holding this back is no seamless way to send a payment from your browser to the website (owner). This has to be native in the browser, user-ce…

The second one is the larger issue. Patreon is working well for many things but still not easy or integrated enough.

Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#137

Post by redwall_hp » Thu, Jan 18, 2024, 6:54 PM UTC

freediver wrote: post #127

amadeuspagel wrote: post #13

Flattr is the kind of idea that sounds great, that people love talking about - if only they could make a small donation to every website they liked - but that doesn't work because people are fundamentally too selfish. This is why ads are the only viable business model for a kind of "ephemeral website" - something you visit only briefly, derive some short knowledge or pleasure from until you follow a link somewhere el…

I'd like to push back on this. It is not that people are too selfish, but that there is not much content truly worth paying for. This is because ads proliferated not just creation of giant amounts of content but they also incentivize quantity over quality. Second thing that is holding this back is no seamless way to send a payment from your browser to the website (owner). This has to be native in the browser, user-ce…

A good with a massive supply and a relatively small demand is therefore worth little. It's a great thing that we've succeeded in producing an enormous amount of information, and art/entertainment...but it's all well past post-scarcity.

Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#138

Post by neom » Thu, Jan 18, 2024, 6:57 PM UTC

jkingsman wrote: post #122

Flattr was the first time anyone paid me money for my open source/freely-hosted passion projects. It made my heart glow for a week.

Curious, do you still have your NFC implant?

Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#139

Post by indymike » Thu, Jan 18, 2024, 7:02 PM UTC

amadeuspagel wrote: post #13

Flattr is the kind of idea that sounds great, that people love talking about - if only they could make a small donation to every website they liked - but that doesn't work because people are fundamentally too selfish. This is why ads are the only viable business model for a kind of "ephemeral website" - something you visit only briefly, derive some short knowledge or pleasure from until you follow a link somewhere el…

Most of the time, it's more painful to receive money than to donate it.

Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#140

Post by sethhochberg » Thu, Jan 18, 2024, 7:03 PM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #131

freediver wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to push back on this. It is not that people are too selfish, but that there is not much content truly worth paying for. This is because ads proliferated not just creation of giant amounts of content but they also incentivize quantity over quality. Second thing that is holding this back is no seamless way to send a payment from your browser to the website (owner). This has to be native in the browser, user-ce…

Perhaps “truly worth paying for” is setting too high a bar for some kinds of content that people do find useful?

I think its also just really hard for people to quantify on a small scale. Its much easier to reason about whether or not you get, on average, $25 a month worth of value from a subscription to the New York Times than it is to try and guess whether someone's review of a vacuum you're considering is worth $2 to you or $0.37 or anything in between.

Or if the stakes are even lower and you're not avoiding a lemon of a vacuum, you're getting marginal improvement to an experience - what is it worth to read someone saying "don't go to Jim's Ale House when on vacation there, its fine but Jacks' is nearby and better"? Clearly that information has some value, but... how much? Whats the cost of a tip that helps turn a serviceable meal on a vacation into a better one?