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Hans Reiser on ReiserFS deprecation in the Linux kernel

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Re: Hans Reiser on ReiserFS deprecation in the Linux kernel

#161
post #19

I think about Hans Reiser pretty often, incidentally, because there is a quote from him I read as a teenager that stuck with me. "The utility of an operating system is proportional to the number of connections possible between its components, than it is to the number of those components." — Hans Reiser (from http://web.archive.org/web/20040126210110/http://unununium.o... ) It's hard to reconcile good things a person…

Fully agreed. We also have to remember that a lot of the historical figures we glorify through their great achievements were terrible people in many respects. And that often goes undiscussed.

> We also have to remember that a lot of the historical figures we glorify through their great achievements were terrible people in many respects. And that often goes undiscussed.

...or we focus on how terrible a person was, and insist on completely disregarding their great achievements.

Re: Hans Reiser on ReiserFS deprecation in the Linux kernel

#162
Reading this I think it is interesting to compare and contrast this write up with the evangelism of Richard Hipp and his success with SQLite.

It seems to me that Hans Reiser's write up still has a lot of leaps and lurches, both emotionally and in terms of reasoning. I felt there was a lot of instances where he expresses remorse for key hiring decisions or meetings between stakeholders in the open source world, but with tinges of belief that had he done things differently then that would've made the difference in a successful outcome.

In a lot of ways it seems like Hans Reiser had a pretty grandiose vision to rearchitect filesystems to become more like databases- which then demanded huge changes both in terms of the physical layout of data stored on disk as well as the implications around how operating systems would leverage and use such a technology capability. He sees himself in a lineage with the plan9 folks... and also sort of implies that this was an idea ahead of its time and somewhat downplaying what a large amount of change would be required (sort of reminiscent to me of the criticisms ppl wage against systemd).

He's now in jail for murdering his wife.

Richard Hipp, on the other hand, literally has a values page on his website. His software is in the public domain. He and his team have been steadily and methodically building what is now the most widely deployed database of all time and it powers a wide range of critical applications and has been approved for FAA use cases, used in missile targeting and powers literally all of the apps on our phones.

He's a deeply Christian human (and I say this as a lifelong atheist who wasn't raised on these values) and has approached evangalism of his technology with heaping amounts of humility and hardcore praxis (SQLite is arguably one of the more comprehensively tested libraries out there). Hipp also is rather opinionated as a technologist- he wrote his own SCM on top of SQLite! But he doesn't come across as a zealot whatsoever but rather a seasoned and mature technologist who is methodically executing on a radical vision to the benefit of all.

In the process I feel that in a lot of ways his accomplishments have achieved the vision that Hans Reiser wanted around advancing new ideas in databases and filesystems. However, instead of doing it at the filesystem layer Hipp instead achieved this vision in process with a library that is extremely easy to include in a huge variety of projects within userspace. In the process the revolution that Reiser wanted was achieved in many ways and with a lot less churn and violence in the process (figuratively and sadly literally).

I could not think of a more opposite and extreme contrasting examples of technologists and approaches, and for me it teaches a lot about how to approach socio-technological endeavors successfully as well as providing a good illustration of the way in which ethics and morals play into said endeavors.

Re: Hans Reiser on ReiserFS deprecation in the Linux kernel

#163
post #158
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhh, are you sure? I believe "connected users" refers to edges. Otherwise it would be stated as "users connected to the network". It could explain my misunderstanding, and also seems consistent with the explanation later in the article, but it's also completely the opposite of what we observe on the internet; for example, the value of the web is definitely not in its in number of pages, but in the value and quality o…

Two users in the network: A and B; one connection: AB. Three users in the network: A, B, and C; three connections: AB, AC, BC. Four users in the network: A, B, C, and D; six connections AB, AC, AD, BC, BD, CD. Metcalfe's law says value increases as 1-3-6-... instead of 2-3-4. In graph terms, users are nodes, connections are edges, and in a fully-connected graph edges are in order of the square of nodes.

Yes, I see I had completely misread and misunderstood the original law.

But ethernetworks aren't fully connected (they tend to have lots of local connections that then are connected to each other through routing).

Re: Hans Reiser on ReiserFS deprecation in the Linux kernel

#164
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because not being able to freely communicate with the larger society is part of the punishment? I dunno, always seemed like an obvious thing.

Why should prisons be about punishment rather than rehabilitation?

It is some of both. Hans murdered his wife, tried to cover it up, and lied about it. His actions make him a danger to society, part of his incarceration relates to the danger he poses to society. While he is removed from society he should also be rehabilitated.

Re: Hans Reiser on ReiserFS deprecation in the Linux kernel

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ending another human's life leaves any possibility of redemption for a person You realize the volunteer soldiers that enter a battle to kill other humans also fall under this scope? Yet in many countries we celebrate their return and service, despite what they may have done. I agree these are not quite the same thing, in how a deed is carried out, but the end result is in fact the same.

> You realize the volunteer soldiers that enter a battle to kill other humans also fall under this scope? Yes. And I strongly believe there's something wrong with their brains. Not so wrong as with the brains of murderers. But to let someone's words override your innate blocks against killing is some weaknes of the brain, easily exploitable with disastrous consequences for humanity. It makes wars feasible.

I strongly disagree with you on that one. I can totally see myself volunteering to come to the defense of a country against invaders, I can absolutely not see myself volunteering (or even being conscripted) into helping some country to invade another (or to enlarge their territory).

I'm a conscientious objector against military service which at the time that I did so still carried a prison sentence and even if I ended up not going to prison (through some luck and a sympathetic police officer) I was more than willing to do so rather than to be used as a tool. So that takes care of the second part of that statement, the first has so far not been put to the test (and let's hope it stays that way).

Re: Hans Reiser on ReiserFS deprecation in the Linux kernel

#166
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because not being able to freely communicate with the larger society is part of the punishment? I dunno, always seemed like an obvious thing.

Why should prisons be about punishment rather than rehabilitation?

You'll find lots of variations of the following:

The Purposes of Punishment:[^1]

- Incapacitation: prevents crime by removing a defendant from society.

- Rehabilitation: prevents crime by altering a defendant’s behavior.

- Retribution: prevents crime by giving victims or society a feeling of avengement.

- Restitution: prevents crime by punishing the defendant financially.

- Deterrence: Specific deterrence prevents crime by frightening an individual defendant with punishment. General deterrence prevents crime by frightening the public with the punishment of an individual defendant.

[^1]: https://open.lib.umn.edu/criminallaw/chapter/1-5-the-purpose...

Re: Hans Reiser on ReiserFS deprecation in the Linux kernel

#168
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Rehabilitation” means that a person is suffering from some condition, and they are not personally at fault for their crimes. While there is some partial truth in this point of view, taking it at 100% face value is unfair, to say the least. People can be actually guilty of something.

Okay, if someone cannot be "rehabilitated" where is the value to society or to that person in punishing them to make them suffer more on top of separating them from the public?

One of many possible values to society is that punishment reduces the motivation of vigilantes. For example if person A killed person B’s child, then person B (or a mob encourage by B) might be less motivated to seek vigilante punishment if there is some chance that a legal system could punish person A instead.

Re: Hans Reiser on ReiserFS deprecation in the Linux kernel

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He planned the murder of the mother of his kids, I'm pretty sure he can plan well in advance for a parole hearing. I wouldn't put anything past the likes of Hans Reiser or Peter Madsen.

Was there something I missed? I just reread his wikipedia page, and it seems to confirm the crime-of-passion narrative that I remember from 15 years ago. That said, I would not disagree with your character evaluation.

He hid the body for 2 years.

Re: Hans Reiser on ReiserFS deprecation in the Linux kernel

#170

Reading this I think it is interesting to compare and contrast this write up with the evangelism of Richard Hipp and his success with SQLite. It seems to me that Hans Reiser's write up still has a lot of leaps and lurches, both emotionally and in terms of reasoning. I felt there was a lot of instances where he expresses remorse for key hiring decisions or meetings between stakeholders in the open source world, but wi…

Very interesting observations, thank you.
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