Live data from Hacker News

Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

bloomberg.com

331–340 of 597 posts

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bill might like a long commute as much as Gladys likes to work from home. Hard to call Bill a sucker in that case.

Gladys can drive around for hours at will, while Bill has no choice. Bill is still a sucker.

There can actually be significant value to limiting optionality. This is the solution to "the paradox of choice"; sometimes it's actually better to have fewer choices!

I find this very unintuitive and even mentally rebel at the idea when I think about it, but I still think it's true.

But for example, consider three scenarios:

1. Work from home, with a consistent habit of going on a ten minute walk and reading for half an hour before and after work. 2. Commute with a ten minute walk and half hour train ride, with a consistent habit of reading on the train. 3. Same as (1), but family responsibilities and other distractions end the moment work begins and begin the moment work ends. 4. Same as (2), but spend the train ride doom scrolling.

For me (1) is best but also unlikely because there are too many other "choices" of what to do before and after work, so in practice I end up doing (3).

But option (2) of commuting by train would actually be better than (3) despite having less optionality! I would have more wind-up and -down time each day, and get more reading done.

But the risk of option (2) is that there is still too much optionality; instead of reading, I could scroll crap on my phone. Removing that optionality somehow - by getting a dumb phone or some other solution to keep myself from this bad habit - would be another improvement.

Clearly it would be better to make better choices without limiting options, but human nature being what it is, it often turns out better in practice to not have the other options at all.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would add one major change that the work from home experiment has achieved - its made the opportunity cost of the work commute clear. This is a time cost paid for by the worker. As you stated, this is variable. If you have a short commute, or you like it, or you get some exercise - office is great. If you hate your commute, if its 3 hours in pollution and traffic - not so much. Earlier the position was that WFH was…

IMO, an hour spent commuting is an hour stolen from one’s children.

Is this also true of an hour spent winding up or down by going on a walk or reading a book or some other adult hobby?

Personally, I don't believe I must either be working or spending time with my children every moment they are awake. I'm a person too, not just a worker and parent, and need to have my own time.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outsourcing jobs and salaries exploded with COVID. 100k USD annual compensation is insane for many countries. You can get best people overseas for a fraction of US costs, and with no obligation attached to you by labor laws. I'm glad this happens so I can use geographic arbitrage: work for US client but live in nice place in Europe with reasonable costs of living.

> and with no obligation attached to you by labor laws. I don't think this can be true. An employer has to follow labor laws pertaining to the country of residence of their employees. Typically some sort of legal entity has to be established in those countries.

Not necessarily. You can sign a contract and push all legal stuff to the employee. Employee creates an LLC or other entity and selling consultancy services to the US client. No labor law attached to this relationship.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#334
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A. This doesn't happen because many C-suite people have commercial property investments. B. Language issues, cultural issues, and time zone issues all have negative effects. C. Or it could mean labour is more productive because it has more free time and is less stressed. There's no pointless commute and some chores can be done in the background. Getting slightly distracted by laundry is far less of a loss to producti…

> This doesn't happen because many C-suite people have commercial property investments I keep reading this but have seen no evidence. Are you saying executives are invested in the buildings their companies occupy?

Lol what? 100% yes. It's super common to have a separate holding company for the real estate that the business leases from.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#335
post #282
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s wrong with incorporating exercise into one’s lifestyle, without dedicated exercise time? It’s convenient and sustainable. Sure, it’s not as good as dedicated exercise time in terms of the adaptations one would get, but it’s much better than the adaptations they’d get on their couch.

Nothing is wrong with that - it's the issue of attempting to impose it on others which is objectionable.

point me to where they tried to "impose" this on others...

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#336
post #297
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am starting to use coworking spaces now because WFH has something of a toll on my family, primarily because kids are loud, and it can be frustrating to work while your loud kid is screaming in the next room without enough of a sound barrier to prevent you from hearing it. I'm not angry at my child, but sometimes I get upset with my wife for not preventing this, or for telling me it's not that loud when it is imposs…

I agree with this to an extent. Our kiddos are old enough to be in school. But if someone is home sick, I have to take the day off because it’s hard to get anything done. A reply to you mentioned noise-canceling headphones. That doesn’t work for me, because the kids want to engage and play with the parents when they’re at home. It’s not just a matter of noise. That said! I still agree with OP’s sentiment. I find that…

Yep, I strongly dislike working from home on days that the kids are home. But I also highly value the flexibility.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#337
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working on a startup pursuing your topic / field of interest might do the trick. There are also lots of technical fields that vastly underpay due to the number of people that want to do it (eg. video games industry) and/or the lack of demand or immediate utility (eg. academia and research). There's also art, film, stage, music, and all of the liberal arts. Imagine what you want to do, then find a job that hits close…

Building a startup is full of uninteresting work. Same for games and any other field. Everything has its boring parts. (Especially building startups. What a slog that is. The fun part is building the product, and that’s a fraction of what you have to do.)

There's one infinitesimal wake period during the age of the universe, and this sounds like making excuses to not do the thing you want to do.

Rip off the band aid and feel some pain.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#338

WFH is an invention equal to washingmachine + dishwasher where 2h each day is not being lost anymore by unproductive activity. With plenty of externalities on top of the lost time. If (only as a test excercise) for 5 years we mandated the employer to bare the commute cost we would quickly see if RTO / WFH makes more economical sense.

This is something governments with an interest in protecting employee wellbeing could step in.

The employer pays for the time you're engaged in working AND trying to work by commuting. That 10-15h/week would, as you say, show up pretty quickly in reports.

But incentives are tricky. I can imagine companies would add the requirement that you live 10min from work because they only have budget for that much time spent on transportation costs. Like with RTO, that would backfire but I'm sure companies would insist on that instead of remote work.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming that there are no differences in productivity, working remotely is borderline morally evil. It's unhealthier (loneliness, lack of work/life separation, physical inactivity), it's bad for the environment (climate control of a 100-people office is less energy intensive than that of 100 individual homes), and its costs are imposed on the worker rather than the business. To be clear, I don't honestly believe the…

I agree with your example paragraph. I think it is only beneficial for highly motivated senior engineers with families to work remotely. As a junior who doesn't know what I'm doing half of the time and feels demotivated without support, and as a single young person without a family that got cut off from building a community because of COVID, when I have worked mainly remotely I've been severely depressed. Not seeing…

Well said. When I share a similar perspective some people seem to assume I'm extremely extroverted, or don't have friends or hobbies outside of work. I'm not very extroverted and I do have a full life outside of work. I still prefer a decent office to WFH, which makes me feel extremely isolated after awhile.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason I can imagine that somebody would genuinely like a long commute would be if they hate their home life and are trying to escape from it. They'd probably be better off just getting a divorce instead.

My commute is about 40 minutes each way by bus, plus a 5 minute walk on both ends. I love it. I get outdoors for a short walk four times a day, I read books and magazines on the bus, see what's being built or new businesses opening around town, sometimes I get to meet neighbors and other commuters, or help out random strangers with directions or whatever. My commute to work is definitely a benefit to my life.

If you had a remote job, would you take a 40-minute round-trip bus ride twice a day just for the enjoyment of it?
Post reply on HN