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A new kind of climate denial has taken over on YouTube

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Re: A new kind of climate denial has taken over on YouTube

#11

Post by blitz_skull »

vdaea wrote: post #7

Remember when telling people that covid escaped from a laboratory was considered Extremely Dangerous to Our Democracy and should be censored? And then youtube deleted every single video that posted that theory. I remember.

Yeah that’s my biggest issue here. Whatever FAANG wants to decide is the “truth du jour” is set as an unassailable position. To even discuss (and I’m sure there’s both reasonable and unreasonable views here) in a manner that violates the Sacred Truth (du jour) is labeled as dangerous.

It’s so wild to me that we’re here as a society.

Re: A new kind of climate denial has taken over on YouTube

#12

Post by ListeningPie »

Watching one video with a climate change denier won’t make much of a difference being recommended and then watching 10 more will move the needle. Lies online are more memorable and appealing than the truth because they don’t have to worry about being true. Just say whatever gets the greatest emotional response. The truth needs help.

Re: A new kind of climate denial has taken over on YouTube

#13

Post by dwb »

> “The idea that we can make the planet more habitable on an environmental, on the environmental front by impoverishing poor people, by raising energy prices and food prices, is absolutely, it’s not only absurd logically, but I think it’s tantamount to genocidal,” Peterson says in one YouTube video his channel posted in 2022.

The problem here, as I see it, is that while I am completely with mainstream science on climate change (and all other issues it's qualified to speak on), and I think Jordan Peterson is a ridiculous figure, there is a kernel of truth to criticisms like this – the economic structure of this world means that yeah, poor people probably will bear the brunt of any changes, even if they're necessary, and that's deeply unjust.

Re: A new kind of climate denial has taken over on YouTube

#14

Post by asoneth »

Observationally, self-serving denial seems to go through steps:

1. It's not happening.

2. Ok, it is happening, but it's not our fault.

3. Ok, it is our fault, but it's too hard to be worth addressing right now.

4. Ok, it would have been worth addressing at the time, but it's too late so we should learn to live with it.

These apply generally across the political spectrum, but specifically with respect to climate change, if people are shifting from step 1 to step 2 and even step 3 as per the article I suppose that is a form of progress in the sense that they are moving closer to reality. Having said that, no step requires that anyone take action or make sacrifices so practically it doesn't matter which step they're on.

Re: A new kind of climate denial has taken over on YouTube

#15

Post by bodiekane »

Weird attack on Jordan Peterson in this piece. The quote from him about being concerned about solutions that work "by impoverishing poor people, by raising energy prices and food prices" is a standard part of the discourse among liberal and progressive climate advocates. Lots of people on the far left are very vocal about policy changes which place a burden on people in poverty or on developing countries.

I point this out just to try to resist this "us vs them" mentality and divisiveness that I see growing in many places. One can advocate for addressing climate change, while still being worried about the impacts of policy changes to the most vulnerable. There's a complex, overlapping set of issues here that one could prioritize differently without there being a stark "good guys" and "bad guys" breakdown.

(My own view is that we need very aggressive changes to minimize carbon pollution and also that it's reasonable for rich countries to pay a larger share for those changes than poor countries)

Re: A new kind of climate denial has taken over on YouTube

#16

Post by ZeroGravitas »

dwb wrote: post #13

> “The idea that we can make the planet more habitable on an environmental, on the environmental front by impoverishing poor people, by raising energy prices and food prices, is absolutely, it’s not only absurd logically, but I think it’s tantamount to genocidal,” Peterson says in one YouTube video his channel posted in 2022. The problem here, as I see it, is that while I am completely with mainstream science on clim…

By this argument I assume you think the poor will bear the brunt of any changes caused by climate change?

So what's the argument that the interventions will hurt them more than the problem?

Peterson has anbeasy answer, because he's a loon and doesn't believe in the problem or any of the solutions and can just tack concern for the poor on as rhetoric.

But people who understand the problem and the solutions don't have that luxury.

Re: A new kind of climate denial has taken over on YouTube

#17

Post by me_me_me »

vdaea wrote: post #7

Remember when telling people that covid escaped from a laboratory was considered Extremely Dangerous to Our Democracy and should be censored? And then youtube deleted every single video that posted that theory. I remember.

the original idea behind it was to not enrage china, as they wanted them to cooperate on fighting it and share info on the covid.

All partial-evidences and clues point to lab leak, including post covid coincidences that look like cover-up attempts.

But no definitive proof exists and china will never admit it. so whats the point?

Re: A new kind of climate denial has taken over on YouTube

#18

Post by me_me_me »

asoneth wrote: post #14

Observationally, self-serving denial seems to go through steps: 1. It's not happening. 2. Ok, it is happening, but it's not our fault. 3. Ok, it is our fault, but it's too hard to be worth addressing right now. 4. Ok, it would have been worth addressing at the time, but it's too late so we should learn to live with it. These apply generally across the political spectrum, but specifically with respect to climate chang…

there is no accepting it state, people believe in flat earth. There is nothing you can do for them. No fact or reasoning will ever convince them and it only entrenches their convictions.

They want to feel special for figuring out 'the thing' and the reality of it not being 'the thing' means they are idiots and back to being idiots. A largely unacceptable proposition (there are people who do get out).

Re: A new kind of climate denial has taken over on YouTube

#19

Post by [deleted] »

bodiekane wrote: post #15

Weird attack on Jordan Peterson in this piece. The quote from him about being concerned about solutions that work "by impoverishing poor people, by raising energy prices and food prices" is a standard part of the discourse among liberal and progressive climate advocates. Lots of people on the far left are very vocal about policy changes which place a burden on people in poverty or on developing countries. I point thi…

[deleted]

Re: A new kind of climate denial has taken over on YouTube

#20

Post by ajuc »

asoneth wrote: post #14

Observationally, self-serving denial seems to go through steps: 1. It's not happening. 2. Ok, it is happening, but it's not our fault. 3. Ok, it is our fault, but it's too hard to be worth addressing right now. 4. Ok, it would have been worth addressing at the time, but it's too late so we should learn to live with it. These apply generally across the political spectrum, but specifically with respect to climate chang…

Timothy Snyder calls this pattern of motivated thinking "politics of inevitability".

At first you think everything's fine so you don't have to do anything. Then when it's no longer possible to lie to yourself about that you immediately switch to "can't do anything anyway" so you can continue doing nothing.

His main example was the "end of history" when dealing with autocracies around the world. At first we thought they will solve itself because we're on the winning side of the history. Then we immediately switched to "nothing can be done".

Anything to avoid taking responsibility.

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