How useful is a Physics degree? • Hacker News Board

Re: How useful is a Physics degree?

#21

Post by polemic » Sat, Apr 28, 2012, 9:30 PM UTC

I'm a developer who studied Physics, and yes, you certainly can compete.

I did a few CS papers but I was frustrated by what I considered low level practical and overly complex theoretcial skills I was learning. That's fine - University should focus on the theoretical - but it doesn't always result in employable skill. Heck, it's possible to get a CS degree without doing that much actual programming.

In my opinion, Physics gives you useful thought processes and solid math skills. A physicist has to relate the real world to theoretical models, something that a programmer has to do every day. Also, many of my physics lab experiments entailed computer analysis of the results. You had to take real-world data and get useful information by programming something - something that not all CS majors seem to have to deal with.

You will have to prove yourself - but if you've been working on open source projects or have a portfolio of high quality work, that will count more than a CS degree for many employers.

Re: How useful is a Physics degree?

#22

Post by polemic » Sat, Apr 28, 2012, 9:36 PM UTC

dpdp_ wrote: post #20

Change majors, do a second major, etc. "Assuming I know the relevant programming languages and have some experience" is a big assumption. Computer Science (or any science major) is very hard to pick up part time. For your first job you will be competing with CS grads. I bet it will be an eye opening experience for you since CS grads do get an unfair advantage in the industry. The chances are you will have to take a m…

> "...since CS grads do get an unfair advantage in the industry"

Really?

Considering that the IT industry is wide open to people without CS degrees, it is exactly the other way around. Engineering, Medical or Law students don't have an "unfair advantage" to their respective profession - they've simply met the minimum requirement. Meanwhile, a CS major has given up several years to maybe have a better shot of getting an interview, never mind a job.

Re: How useful is a Physics degree?

#23

Post by fonzie » Sat, Apr 28, 2012, 9:38 PM UTC

I'm about to graduate with a degree in Physics. While the degree itself is brilliant I don't really think it is incredibly helpful in the startup world.

You do learn C, Mathematica, MatLab, etc, which means you will at least know what is going on when you look at code, but by itself this is not enough.

Something that has definitely helped me was taking a Microprocessors course, where you learn Assembly, which meant really understanding computational processes like memory, power, speed. I was lucky that we were able to create a standalone project that really helped solidify all the theoretical ideas. If If you can do a course like this, I highly recommend it.

Unless you spend as much time auditing CS courses as you do in Physics lectures (and really have the commitment to learn both), you will not leave with the same knowledge as a CS student, but if you put in the work, you can be competent.

I really have only one piece of advice: If you want to build applications once you graduate, start building now. It doesn't matter if they aren't brilliant or even good for that matter; build. It doesn't matter if they don't look incredible; build. It doesn't matter what languages or frameworks you learn; build. If you do this, with time, you will learn that you can learn most things relatively quickly and be competent in whatever it is you decide to do after graduating, because you spent time hammering away, grinding and really learning.

Re: How useful is a Physics degree?

#24

Post by dpdp_ » Sat, Apr 28, 2012, 9:45 PM UTC

polemic wrote: post #22

dpdp_ wrote: post #20

Change majors, do a second major, etc. "Assuming I know the relevant programming languages and have some experience" is a big assumption. Computer Science (or any science major) is very hard to pick up part time. For your first job you will be competing with CS grads. I bet it will be an eye opening experience for you since CS grads do get an unfair advantage in the industry. The chances are you will have to take a m…

> "...since CS grads do get an unfair advantage in the industry" Really? Considering that the IT industry is wide open to people without CS degrees, it is exactly the other way around. Engineering, Medical or Law students don't have an "unfair advantage" to their respective profession - they've simply met the minimum requirement. Meanwhile, a CS major has given up several years to maybe have a better shot of getting…

I am just telling you the truth.

IT industry != Software Engineering industry. Event IT will favor Business, InfoSys, Accounting grads way above any other science disciplines.

In Software Engineering, fresh CS grads get a pretty unfair advantage. Do a Google/Facebook/Microsoft/Amazon interview and find out.

Re: How useful is a Physics degree?

#25

Post by civilian » Sat, Apr 28, 2012, 9:46 PM UTC

I got a degree in Biochemistry. I hadn't taken _any_ programming classes when I graduated. My first biotech job had me learn some LabView and R. Over the next year I took a night class in python, and got my job from that.

So yeah. I highly recommend learning CS while you can! CS is a field where your ability to code is much more important than pieces of paper.

Re: How useful is a Physics degree?

#26

Post by Mz » Sat, Apr 28, 2012, 9:58 PM UTC

Minor quibbling point, not necessarily relevant to your question: The point of a college education is not just job skills per se. If you want skills for a specific job, you typically are sent for training rather than education. My sister, who has vastly superior job hunting skills to mine, always said that unless you want to be something like a doctor or lawyer, your major is largely irrelevant but having a degree (any degree) is important to get your foot in the door.

I will close with one of my favorite anecdotes: Michael Crichton wanted to be a writer. His family told him he was crazy, you cannot support yourself that way and encouraged him to be a doctor. So he went to medical school. And his first book was published before he graduated, so he never did work as a doctor. Still, his overwhelmingly successful books and movies are all the richer due to his educational background. Jurassic Park and other works would not be so compelling if, like so many authors, he had some throwaway explanation like "er...radiation! That's it!"

Not intended as advice, which is nearly "against my religion". Intended only as food for thought.

Best of luck.

Re: How useful is a Physics degree?

#27

Post by polemic » Sat, Apr 28, 2012, 10:09 PM UTC

dpdp_ wrote: post #24

polemic wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "...since CS grads do get an unfair advantage in the industry" Really? Considering that the IT industry is wide open to people without CS degrees, it is exactly the other way around. Engineering, Medical or Law students don't have an "unfair advantage" to their respective profession - they've simply met the minimum requirement. Meanwhile, a CS major has given up several years to maybe have a better shot of getting…

I am just telling you the truth. IT industry != Software Engineering industry. Event IT will favor Business, InfoSys, Accounting grads way above any other science disciplines. In Software Engineering, fresh CS grads get a pretty unfair advantage. Do a Google/Facebook/Microsoft/Amazon interview and find out.

You didn't actually rebut anything I said... and you haven't explained what you mean by "unfair advantage".

And 99.999% of software engineering jobs are not at Google/Facebook/...

Re: How useful is a Physics degree?

#28

Post by codepoet » Sat, Apr 28, 2012, 10:10 PM UTC

Sounds very familiar ;)

I have an econophysics degree, work in IT and can easily compete with CS graduates. Started my first job as a software developer and now I'm the head of my own development team and also responsible for hiring.

As a physicist you are a problem solver: You will learn how to learn, how to tackle complex challenges in a systematic way and analyze experiments. These skills are very useful. If your physics and math knowledge helps you later on depends on your future job. My own work does not involve physics, nor any non-trivial math.

The biggest hurdle will be getting your first job in IT: You have to show that you are as capable as a CS graduate. That's easier if you apply for jobs that don't focus on algorithms, for example systems programming. Though some companies will only hire CS graduates and miss the chance to get cross-domain knowledge...

So how to show the hiring manager that you are good at writing software? Write (open source) software, mention projects on your CV and also in your cover letter. I love to see links to github / bitbucket on a CV.

If you have passion for writing software, are willing to invest a huge amount of time and you know how to teach yourself then you can be become a great software developer.

Re: How useful is a Physics degree?

#29

Post by jimmahoney » Sat, Apr 28, 2012, 10:35 PM UTC

The short answer is yes.

As several folks have pointed out, the real answer is that it depends more on you (what skills you've cultivated, what projects you've been involved in) than the degree itself. I have met a number of folks with physics degrees who are amazing at CS stuff.

I myself did a BS in math & physics, a PhD in physics, and during all that time did lots of various sorts of computational data and modeling work. I now teach college level computer science.

Re: How useful is a Physics degree?

#30

Post by dpdp_ » Sat, Apr 28, 2012, 10:50 PM UTC

polemic wrote: post #27

dpdp_ wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am just telling you the truth. IT industry != Software Engineering industry. Event IT will favor Business, InfoSys, Accounting grads way above any other science disciplines. In Software Engineering, fresh CS grads get a pretty unfair advantage. Do a Google/Facebook/Microsoft/Amazon interview and find out.

You didn't actually rebut anything I said... and you haven't explained what you mean by "unfair advantage". And 99.999% of software engineering jobs are not at Google/Facebook/...

Unfair advantage means:

1. Interview questions for fresh grads are very CS oriented. For example, I have seen candidates immediately dismissed for not being able to estimate algorithm complexity. Same for memory requirements. Same for variants of knapsack problem. Same for not being able to get to alternative approaches. Good luck getting those questions right without spending 4 years doing CS.

2. Internship. CS grads get 2-3 very solid internships on their resume. This comes up during the evaluation as a big factor.

3. The "he is not a CS major" comment popping up during the reviews unintentionally.

4. Cultural fit (very true for other industries as well). People hire people like themselves. CS grads have a lot more in common with other CS grads.

Google/Facebook/Microsoft/Amazon/Apple/LinkedIn/etc are at the top of the food chain. If you want to be the best, you have to compete with the best.