Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

macrumors.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

921–930 of 1001 posts

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#921

Post by KingLancelot »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #799
justinclift wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It'll probably need to be another lawsuit since it's in the developer agreement. Mind you, you can be blocked from doing needed Apple dev stuff (eg sign binaries, etc) until you've manually logged into your Apple account and clicked on the "I accept" button whenever they change terms. This happened to us (sqlitebrowser.org) in recent weeks, as our CI just stopped working one day. It turns out there was a new develo…

> There's literally no choice but to sign the things - regardless of terms - if you want your users to have software that runs. I suspect the EU will at some point, they have haven't already, make terms that must be accepted to continue void.

[dead]

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#922

Post by iknowstuff »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #920

I see the App Store no different than any retailer. If you want to sell your products in WalMart, then you agree to their terms (which happen to be quite onerous), and they set the price that they want. If you don't like it, you don't have to sell your product in Walmart. You can still sell it at Target (if you agree to their terms), etc., or you can try to open your own store and try to reach your target customers d…

Not analogous at all. Amazon is the online equivalent of that.

You the consumer can go to a different store any time on a whim. You can shop anywhere online with a click.

Not the App Store, which controls what and how over half of Americans can access, and the barrier to switching OS-es is fucking huge. How is this remotely the same

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#923

Post by kristjansson »

ric2b wrote: post #641
throwaway290 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most famous Epic game is (or was until this legal battle) played on iOS more than on any other platform, that's in Epic's own complaint. So who built iOS? Why so many people use it? How come they are willing to pay for games instead of pirating them? Looks like whoever developed iOS and all the hardware it runs on and the ecosystem that makes it appealing for rich users is actually providing Epic a ton of value a…

I don't get where the equivalence of "iPhone user" and "rich person" comes from. It's $1000, most people have acess to that kind of money, even if they need to finance it and even if it is a terrible financial decision for them to buy one, many still do.

It's not the implication, it's the association. Owning an iPhone of course doesn't logically imply the owner is rich. Empirically, however, an iPhone user is likely be higher income.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#924

Post by 015a »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #920

I see the App Store no different than any retailer. If you want to sell your products in WalMart, then you agree to their terms (which happen to be quite onerous), and they set the price that they want. If you don't like it, you don't have to sell your product in Walmart. You can still sell it at Target (if you agree to their terms), etc., or you can try to open your own store and try to reach your target customers d…

This is the problem with metaphor; eventually their legs run out.

The more correct metaphor is: Walmart sells you a coloring book. In the back of that coloring book there's a mail-in coupon: send it in, $5 for a second coloring book. Walmart now not only expects to make a cut on that initial coloring book sale; they expect to make a cut on that mail-in sale.

One might say: Wait a second, if I'm going to buy that second coloring book, its probably because the first one was so good. If I'm going to buy a book from Kindle, its probably because that book was surfaced to me in the Kindle app. Walmart and Apple didn't exactly have a large hand in making that second sale happen; my product clearly had a much larger hand in it. Apple would, of course, disagree; because they have a god complex.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#925

Post by wvenable »

IceHegel wrote: post #424

Yes, there's a very real sense in which the world is better for having had Apple than not. They have made technological life more beautiful. For that reason, people seem strangely committed to defending them through their rent-seeking period. Apple cannot be both a good company and a monopoly. As their users, we should not accept the false framing and false choice their management presents of either monopolistic cont…

> Apple as the company of Steve Jobs, when it is clearly something very, very different today.

What? Tim Cook has done a great job of keeping up the Apple philosophy. What significantly has changed?

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#926

Post by vonwoodson »

This discussion always drives my mind back to what it's like to be a "Corporate Citizen" Like, when the free market has completely taken over: What is it actually going to be like. I think Apple is the closest to serving many of the "essential government functions" of my life: Health Records, Credit Card and currency (in Apple Cash), Identification Card/Drivers License... I don't see this trend going away as time moves on, either.

In this light, I see what Apple is doing to Epic as totally legit: It's like any other government taxing a business within it's borders. Apple needs to take a cut to make sure that the infrastructure for all these services it provides to us citizens is funded. I'd be happy with a 95% income tax on The 1%: why wouldn't I be happy with a 20-something% tax on Epic? Epic going to the Supreme Court is similar to them asking to not have to pay taxes in my 'Nation of Apple' and I'm not sure that I want that.

Of course, this is from a certain frame of thought, and may not actually be how I genuinely feel about this. More of a thought experiment.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#928

Post by insane_dreamer »

015a wrote: post #924
insane_dreamer wrote: post #920

I see the App Store no different than any retailer. If you want to sell your products in WalMart, then you agree to their terms (which happen to be quite onerous), and they set the price that they want. If you don't like it, you don't have to sell your product in Walmart. You can still sell it at Target (if you agree to their terms), etc., or you can try to open your own store and try to reach your target customers d…

This is the problem with metaphor; eventually their legs run out. The more correct metaphor is: Walmart sells you a coloring book. In the back of that coloring book there's a mail-in coupon: send it in, $5 for a second coloring book. Walmart now not only expects to make a cut on that initial coloring book sale; they expect to make a cut on that mail-in sale. One might say: Wait a second, if I'm going to buy that seco…

I understand what you're saying but the original metaphor still stands. In-app purchases are like other related products produced by your company, which you are still selling through Walmart -- it's just that you're not using Walmart's payment system for purchases.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#929

Post by insane_dreamer »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #369
sircastor wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people think of the App Store as a bazaar that Apple runs on its property, and it’s a 15-30% charge to setup a tent and sell your wares. Others think of it as Apple’s general store where they carry your app as a product, and you pay 15-30% for a place on the shelf. The concept that Kroger (for instance) has a monopoly of customers in its own store is ridiculous. There are other stores, and other bazaars. What an…

> The concept that Kroger (for instance) has a monopoly of customers in its own store is ridiculous. There are other stores, and other bazaars. I'm not making the argument from a legal perspective, but from a reality perspective, I think that's a very poor analogy to the way operating systems (and "platforms" generally) work. The very nature of operating systems is that they have much more control than a simple store…

> it's just a much higher burden that deciding to go to a different grocery store

That very much depends on how much you're invested in a particular platform.

Using the store analogy, if you decide not to shop at Walmart anymore because you detest their policies, and the closest store that carries the products you're used to getting is 20 minutes away, or maybe you now have to go to multiple different stores to get everything you need, making an extra 50 minutes of driving, that's a considerable burden of switching as each time you make your purchases (plus pay higher prices).

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#930

Post by insane_dreamer »

pathartl wrote: post #358
paholg wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about if you go to purchase a house, but one of the HoA agreements is that you only shop at Kroger.

And the only roads in and out of your neighborhood leads directly to a Kroger. And there's barbed wire fencing surrounding your neighborhood. Meanwhile, deliveries being made to Kroger from distributors may only use Kroger-branded trucks, which cost at least 20% more. Oh, and that truck may only be serviced by Kroger-approved mechanics. Those mechanics can only buy parts from Kroger. Any totaled truck can't be parted…

basically this is what Walmart did to countless towns in the US by putting all the mom and pop stores out of business

not saying it's good (in fact, it's much worse than what Apple is doing), but no one contested its legality

Post reply on HN