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Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

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Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#31

Post by threeseed »

ado__dev wrote: post #23
threeseed wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this isn't a tax on web purchases. As a developer you need to pay the 30% commission similar to how if you're using Unreal Engine you need to pay 5%. You can legitimately argue this fee is way too high but the courts have already said that they are allowed to charge it.

I don't think the issue is how high the fee is, the issue is Apple forcing developers to use their payments platform. Apple is within its right to charge whatever they want. Unreal Engine is free to charge whatever fee they want. But you're not forced to use UE. You are forced to use Apple IAP system, or their alternative now, is to allow you to use your own system, but still pay them a ridiculous fee, for what exact…

As a developer I am not forced to write iOS apps. Just like I am not forced to use Unreal Engine.

Apple charges 30% if you do choose. Epic charges 5%.

Apple argues that what you're paying for includes SDKs. Epic does too.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#33

Post by insane_dreamer »

ado__dev wrote: post #23
threeseed wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this isn't a tax on web purchases. As a developer you need to pay the 30% commission similar to how if you're using Unreal Engine you need to pay 5%. You can legitimately argue this fee is way too high but the courts have already said that they are allowed to charge it.

I don't think the issue is how high the fee is, the issue is Apple forcing developers to use their payments platform. Apple is within its right to charge whatever they want. Unreal Engine is free to charge whatever fee they want. But you're not forced to use UE. You are forced to use Apple IAP system, or their alternative now, is to allow you to use your own system, but still pay them a ridiculous fee, for what exact…

> you're not forced to use UE.

you are forced to pay Epic 5% of sales (if your game makes more than $1 million), so pretty much like Apple (fees are lower of course)

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#34

Post by bilalq »

If it was just a tax, it'd be bad enough. But Apple's in-app payments solution is severely lacking in terms of features and capabilities.

Just some of the problems:

* You cannot issue a partial refund.

* Actually, you can't refund a customer at all. Customers have to contact Apple to request a refund and it's entirely at their mercy of their whims.

* If Apple declines the refund for whatever reason, you and the customer are just screwed. Literally had to buy a gift card to give a customer so we could make them whole.

* You cannot offer a discount and free trial at the same time.

* When trying to create a different subscription group to A/B test our pricing, we somehow got cursed with a reviewer who did not understand the concept long after it was released. New app builds with bug fixes completely unrelated were getting rejected. It took weeks of escalations before they finally relented.

* Promotional pricing is so frustrating to setup between Introductory Offers, Promotional Offers, and Offer Codes.

* You cannot generate ad-hoc pricing for anything.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#35

Post by [deleted] »

ado__dev wrote: post #23
threeseed wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this isn't a tax on web purchases. As a developer you need to pay the 30% commission similar to how if you're using Unreal Engine you need to pay 5%. You can legitimately argue this fee is way too high but the courts have already said that they are allowed to charge it.

I don't think the issue is how high the fee is, the issue is Apple forcing developers to use their payments platform. Apple is within its right to charge whatever they want. Unreal Engine is free to charge whatever fee they want. But you're not forced to use UE. You are forced to use Apple IAP system, or their alternative now, is to allow you to use your own system, but still pay them a ridiculous fee, for what exact…

[deleted]

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#36

Post by jchook »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #30
grishka wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure why they feel so emboldened Because they feel like they own the relationship between the user and the developer by virtue of it happening on a device they made, regardless of how much their contribution, if any, was to the formation of that relationship in the first place.

the same could be said of any game developed on Unreal and required to pay an (admittedly lower) percent to Epic

That's not an apt comparison because Apple banned alternative app stores from their devices.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#37

Post by [deleted] »

bilalq wrote: post #34

If it was just a tax, it'd be bad enough. But Apple's in-app payments solution is severely lacking in terms of features and capabilities. Just some of the problems: * You cannot issue a partial refund. * Actually, you can't refund a customer at all. Customers have to contact Apple to request a refund and it's entirely at their mercy of their whims. * If Apple declines the refund for whatever reason, you and the custo…

[deleted]

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#38

Post by [deleted] »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #4

Can anyone provide a link to context on what OP is talking about, for those who don't know it? I don't understand what Apple is actually doing from this tweet/thread. Are they are somehow managing to force even payment links from ordinary web sites in an ordinary web browser (Safari?) to go through them as payment processor? (How?) Or is this a new rule for app store apps (what is the new rule?) Or a new payment stru…

[deleted]

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#39

Post by xivzgrev »

I mean I gotta give respect to Apple. They seem to have done the minimal technical compliance with the order. Users can make a purchase for their app outside of the App Store.

But at the same time they put in as much friction as they could, including reframing the charge to developer as a lead commission - and the net cost to developer is HIGHER than using Apple.

Of course epic is going to challenge the spirit of the implementation but this definitely makes it murkier - can you still claim a monopoly if developers can technically allow purchase outside and have a choice?

In any case it buys Apple more years of high rents, and possible indefinite victory (forever rents).

Ultimately not great for users (as any monopoly isn’t) but I don’t expect a large business to act any different. I can respect though how they approached a potentially large setback for their business.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#40

Post by insane_dreamer »

ado__dev wrote: post #23
threeseed wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this isn't a tax on web purchases. As a developer you need to pay the 30% commission similar to how if you're using Unreal Engine you need to pay 5%. You can legitimately argue this fee is way too high but the courts have already said that they are allowed to charge it.

I don't think the issue is how high the fee is, the issue is Apple forcing developers to use their payments platform. Apple is within its right to charge whatever they want. Unreal Engine is free to charge whatever fee they want. But you're not forced to use UE. You are forced to use Apple IAP system, or their alternative now, is to allow you to use your own system, but still pay them a ridiculous fee, for what exact…

> You are forced to use Apple IAP system

only if you want to release your app on Apple's platform; you're free to release it on Android, Windows, Linux, Unreal, etc., each of which has their own set of fees (or none)

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