China Told Women to Have Babies, but Its Population Shrank Again
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Re: China Told Women to Have Babies, but Its Population Shrank Again
#2Too late. People got used to having very small families both because of the tyrannical policy and because it makes more sense with urbanization. Also, you never know when you might have an accident, so if the limit becomes two, you'll still have one and only have two if there is an accident.
Re: China Told Women to Have Babies, but Its Population Shrank Again
#3Not that the headline is particularly accurate...but where & when has national leadership calling upon women to have more children ever actually worked? (Yes, most of the CCP's brighter members probably understood that it was just performative leadership.)
And if you ruthlessly optimize a society for maximum short-term economic output, mostly via short-term individual rewards...um, yes, that does kinda de-emphasize everything that's needed for the society to have much of a very-long-term future, doesn't it?
Re: China Told Women to Have Babies, but Its Population Shrank Again
#4Not that the headline is particularly accurate...but where & when has national leadership calling upon women to have more children ever actually worked? (Yes, most of the CCP's brighter members probably understood that it was just performative leadership.) And if you ruthlessly optimize a society for maximum short-term economic output, mostly via short-term individual rewards...um, yes, that does kinda de-emphasize e…
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Re: China Told Women to Have Babies, but Its Population Shrank Again
#5Raising kids absolutely sucks 99.9% of the time. Society is constantly riding your ass demanding you follow their every law, desire, and regulation and if you do it right no one gives a shit other than to milk the kid dry in taxes for being raised to be productive. If you do it wrong, well there's a jail cell waiting and you lose all your friends and family and live in terrible guilt. The kid, well perhaps rightly the kid thinks he's owed a proper raising so there's no thanks for providing it.
It's a suckers game and by the time you're free again you're getting old and evolution is ready to wind you down. Knowing what I do now, I wouldn't do it again.
Re: China Told Women to Have Babies, but Its Population Shrank Again
#6I have come the conclusion that kids have basically gone from asset to liability over the last century. And even if they may not express it in these terms or have hard numbers to back it up, people know this intuitively.
In the 1920s there was no social security so having kids to take care of you in your old days was a must, expectations were somewhat low. You could get a lot of kids because making them all share one room was considered fine, they were expected to do a lot of chores, sometimes helping with the family's business even. Contrast that to today: we have financialized everything so you don't need kids, you just need someone to have them, not you specifically. The expectations are high: they need their own bedroom, you have to constantly be behind them (otherwise some busybody will call the cops for neglect), pay for expensive hobbies, tutor them so they can go to a good college (that you're expected to help pay for). Is it really surprising then that people get less or no kids?
Of course this quality over quantity approach may actually be a good thing, I certainly appreciate having been raised that way, unfortunately we have structured our societies to expect infinite growth so until we find a way to resolve these conflicting needs we will keep feeling the pain.
Re: China Told Women to Have Babies, but Its Population Shrank Again
#7Raising kids absolutely sucks 99.9% of the time. Society is constantly riding your ass demanding you follow their every law, desire, and regulation and if you do it right no one gives a shit other than to milk the kid dry in taxes for being raised to be productive. If you do it wrong, well there's a jail cell waiting and you lose all your friends and family and live in terrible guilt. The kid, well perhaps rightly th…
Are you actually a parent? That seems like a very warped view.
Re: China Told Women to Have Babies, but Its Population Shrank Again
#8I have come the conclusion that kids have basically gone from asset to liability over the last century. And even if they may not express it in these terms or have hard numbers to back it up, people know this intuitively. In the 1920s there was no social security so having kids to take care of you in your old days was a must, expectations were somewhat low. You could get a lot of kids because making them all share one…
Not saying you're wrong, but I really think you've overlooked the cultural shift towards individualism.
Maybe not so much in the 1920s, but in WW1 men would lie about their age so they'd have the opportunity to fight for the empire. Family, nation and duty came before self-actualisation and security.
Re: China Told Women to Have Babies, but Its Population Shrank Again
#9I have come the conclusion that kids have basically gone from asset to liability over the last century. And even if they may not express it in these terms or have hard numbers to back it up, people know this intuitively. In the 1920s there was no social security so having kids to take care of you in your old days was a must, expectations were somewhat low. You could get a lot of kids because making them all share one…
Not saying you're wrong, but I really think you've overlooked the cultural shift towards individualism. Maybe not so much in the 1920s, but in WW1 men would lie about their age so they'd have the opportunity to fight for the empire. Family, nation and duty came before self-actualisation and security.
I would not dismiss the link with individualism but I am not convinced that it is a cause, if anything I see it as a consequence. When you are raised as part of a large family with several generations in the same house you probably have a much stronger sense of community than a single kid raised by just two parents.
Re: China Told Women to Have Babies, but Its Population Shrank Again
#10I have come the conclusion that kids have basically gone from asset to liability over the last century. And even if they may not express it in these terms or have hard numbers to back it up, people know this intuitively. In the 1920s there was no social security so having kids to take care of you in your old days was a must, expectations were somewhat low. You could get a lot of kids because making them all share one…
> kids have basically gone from asset to liability over the last century
This has happened in virtually every country that has moved from the farms to the cities.
In farms, kids are added labor - in the city, not so much.