Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Most STEM grads don't work in STEM jobs

tampabay.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 155 posts

Re: Most STEM grads don't work in STEM jobs

#41

Post by LASR »

There is a huge difference between software and non-software STEM jobs. The required education/qualifications are different. The job market is different.

I graduated with a degree in Engineering Physics (non-sofware). I loved writing software as a hobby, but I wanted to "change the world" working at NASA or CERN or something.

In my 3rd year a FAANG offered an internship that paid better than what I would hope to make at NASA. I took it. Been in software ever since, bouncing between FAANGs and startups. I don't think I'll ever change the world. But hey, I have a family I can support.

Big tech steals you away with offers you can't refuse.

Basically my expected, actual diverged in this manner:

Path1: Not software

  - Complete undergrad
  - Join an engineering firm
  - Definitely make
Path2: Software

  - Maybe complete undergrad
  - Join a FAANG
  - Make 6-figures as a new grad

Re: Most STEM grads don't work in STEM jobs

#42

Post by FirmwareBurner »

unsui wrote: post #38
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>STEM reality: we got you to confuse an ad for a search result 0.5% more often. That couldn't be more false. The vast majority of STEM jobs do not pushing ads to people., only FAANGS and such which are a minority of the total STEM jobs.

source? (I am challenging you :) ). The quote "The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads" is a fairly robust heuristic for determing what skillsets are valued today by Big Tech. I'm sure there are exceptions (there always are to every heuristic), but overall, probably a fair assumption.

>source? (I am challenging you :) ).

The entire jobs market. Look it up.

STEM jobs doesn't mean BigTech. Mechanical engineering is also STEM. So is chemical engineering, architecture, etc.

Re: Most STEM grads don't work in STEM jobs

#43

Post by torginus »

wharvle wrote: post #7

> The Census Bureau reported in 2021 that a paltry 28% of STEM grads are working in these supposedly in-demand, highly paid and important STEM jobs. These include diverse sectors such as pharmaceuticals, chemicals and energy, but about half of STEM jobs are in computers, and tech firms typically complain the loudest of STEM shortages. I’ve long suspected that the whole “STEM” education movement is a way for big tech…

The thing is even though I went to school for EE, I found it weird that EE jobs demanded an incredibly wide and difficult to obtain skillset, including rudimentary CS knowledge, yet paid less than what I could sell said CS knowledge for.

We live in a society.

Re: Most STEM grads don't work in STEM jobs

#45

Post by Workaccount2 »

mp05 wrote: post #22

I say this with 90% sincerity: I thought this was STEAM now? But with all seriousness... I went to university out of high school in 2005 to get a mech engineering degree but never finished because I liked to party too hard and web dev was easy and paid better than most people I knew with entry-level engineering jobs. Flash forward to now as a non-trad student and I'm in my 400-level coursework. It's all easier than i…

My old school electronics company has gone through some recent EE grads.

One of them is very sharp and definitely could have done the grind even 20 years ago.

The other three I have absolutely no idea how they passed those classes. They aren't engineers either, they are technicians doing low level work. All three also completely whiffed to a worrying degree when given a basic assignment to see how well they knew electronics (the one who is an engineer smashed his assignment no problem.)

Re: Most STEM grads don't work in STEM jobs

#46

Post by majormajor »

mp05 wrote: post #22

I say this with 90% sincerity: I thought this was STEAM now? But with all seriousness... I went to university out of high school in 2005 to get a mech engineering degree but never finished because I liked to party too hard and web dev was easy and paid better than most people I knew with entry-level engineering jobs. Flash forward to now as a non-trad student and I'm in my 400-level coursework. It's all easier than i…

You may have changed more than you give yourself credit for, my experience at a highly-regarded place 20 years ago was that homework and showing up and passing the final went a similarly LONG way. But it was easy to not do those things.

Re: Most STEM grads don't work in STEM jobs

#47

Post by anon291 »

majormajor wrote: post #14

Some of the way this is being presented makes it seem like "bad for the workers" findings, "don't study STEM after all" but this is more about "is this the best way to employ people with STEM degrees", with a central complaint being something along the lines of "innovative IC STEM work is underpaid compared to neighboring business/management-ish fields that capture a lot of graduates" > Many able STEM grads bolt for…

> Employers also incentivize moves from technical work to management with higher salaries at their own firms, yet many bemoan a shortage of technical STEM workers, not managers.

Well... yeah if you have X engineers in the class of 1990, then in order to continue to be able to provide STEM services at the same rate a decade after that cohort retires in 2055, you'll need X graduates in 2000. Obviously, you can't just depend on aging workers, or you'll run into the retirement and death problem and be unable to continue the endeavor. This is not unique to STEM. All industries require new workers to be produced. Humans die, retire, and move on. Without a constant supply of new workers, industries fade, inventions never happen, progress ceases.

Also, a STEM manager is very much a technical worker. You have to be delusional to think you can substitute an MBA for an Engineering Manager.

Re: Most STEM grads don't work in STEM jobs

#48

Post by bluetomcat »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #21
wharvle wrote: post #7

> The Census Bureau reported in 2021 that a paltry 28% of STEM grads are working in these supposedly in-demand, highly paid and important STEM jobs. These include diverse sectors such as pharmaceuticals, chemicals and energy, but about half of STEM jobs are in computers, and tech firms typically complain the loudest of STEM shortages. I’ve long suspected that the whole “STEM” education movement is a way for big tech…

>STEM reality: we got you to confuse an ad for a search result 0.5% more often. That couldn't be more false. The vast majority of STEM jobs do not pushing ads to people., only FAANGS and such which are a minority of the total STEM jobs.

Most of them are driving and sustaining user engagement in online services of some kind. It's mostly a zero-sum game between many services competing for user time and attention.

Re: Most STEM grads don't work in STEM jobs

#49

Post by FirmwareBurner »

bluetomcat wrote: post #48
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>STEM reality: we got you to confuse an ad for a search result 0.5% more often. That couldn't be more false. The vast majority of STEM jobs do not pushing ads to people., only FAANGS and such which are a minority of the total STEM jobs.

Most of them are driving and sustaining user engagement in online services of some kind. It's mostly a zero-sum game between many services competing for user time and attention.

Which mechanical engineers are doing that?

Re: Most STEM grads don't work in STEM jobs

#50

Post by wharvle »

CydeWeys wrote: post #15
wharvle wrote: post #7

> The Census Bureau reported in 2021 that a paltry 28% of STEM grads are working in these supposedly in-demand, highly paid and important STEM jobs. These include diverse sectors such as pharmaceuticals, chemicals and energy, but about half of STEM jobs are in computers, and tech firms typically complain the loudest of STEM shortages. I’ve long suspected that the whole “STEM” education movement is a way for big tech…

CS grads are the most likely to work in their field post-graduation. It's the other majors bringing STEM down, like biology.

That's my point, and why I quoted that part. The only bit of this that needed some kind of big training push was computer nerdery, and that, mostly for selling ads better. Putting that under the "STEM" umbrella gave that crap an association with, you know, things that actually matter, which made selling it easier and generally raised CS' prestige (in a PR-campaign sort of way).
Post reply on HN