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US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

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Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#881

Post by squigglydonut »

mentos wrote: post #879
squigglydonut wrote: post #842

I designed and built my PWA. You just have to define a manifest and set an empty service worker. Boom now your mobile responsive app is a PWA. PWA can look exactly like native app if you are careful with the design. There are navigation patterns that users expect. Make sure to dial in the information hierarchy and design modals correctly. Use familiar iconography and use type that works at small point sizes. This is…

Curious to know what frameworks you are using?

Nextjs and native browser components that I style in ways that are familiar to mobile app users. So like , and you use CSS to give it 8px border radius and 48px height. Since I'm going for a material style with an iOS feel I mix the forms. Another example is I use a hamburger menu but I use sf symbols light "icon" as an SVG.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#883

Post by squigglydonut »

ativzzz wrote: post #873
squigglydonut wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh in app purchasing. No my product is entirely dependent on the user purchasing a physical product. There's no IAP. Possibly in the future if users want something that is an upsell then I could see that happening. But I would have to hear it from users and by that point they would already be in my app-store-less ecosystem

Makes sense. One of the benefits of a mobile app is the ease of selling things in the app. Of course you can make it easy with a webapp too, but you need to handle the payment infra yourself and ask for credit card info

For sure. I was pleasantly surprised how easy it is to work with stripe. I am not handling any payment info. I don't even host the checkout UI myself it's all done by stripe. It is literally a link that I push into the view.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#884

Post by int_19h »

toasterlovin wrote: post #798
guax wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the difference is that amazon is not a platform. You sell on Amazon because it is where everyone is and they did that by burning lots and lots of cash to ensure everyone margins cannot be larger than a paper atom. Now that they're trying to capitalize on it they're becoming worse as a store and I can't remember last time I used them (in NL). If you buy an iphone there is no one to compete, Apple does not have…

> Amazon does not take 9% if you sell somewhere else So we do sell on other e-commerce platforms and you’re never gonna guess what their fee structures are. (Basically the same as Amazon’s)

But there's actual competition underlying this fee structure, since the users can easily move from Amazon to e.g. eBay or really anywhere else in search of some item that they want. The only lock-in that Amazon might have on them is Prime membership, which the users have to actively opt into.

Whereas Apple could start charging 50% tomorrow and still have all the major apps in the store because of their market dominance position combined with ecosystem lock-in and walled garden.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#885

Post by folmar »

lolinder wrote: post #874
volleygman180 wrote: post #761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's justification seems counterintuitive, given that the commission only applies to app sales or in-app purchases. Since free apps don't pay anything, what is the commission for if not for "services as a payment provider"?

It's very normal for companies to charge some customers more than others based on their ability and/or willingness to pay. See: student, senior, and military discounts, SaaS with organization pricing vs individual pricing, etc.

I don't know for the US but in many countries that's just illegal if you have a monopoly.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#886

Post by int_19h »

rootusrootus wrote: post #792
LMYahooTFY wrote: post #775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those services died relatively quickly in the face of what GP is describing.

Indeed they did. Why do we now think it's possible to go back to that?

OP's point is that it's not, which is why Apple is begrudgingly allowing it. But if they could make you use apps for everything instead of a browser, they would. And they'd use all the same arguments they do today wrt not allowing sideloading etc to justify it.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#887

Post by randunel »

Gabrys1 wrote: post #347
zamadatix wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You're charging too much" seems unlikely to be the actual argument presented though. Something along the lines of the scare message, still not actually allowing it to be handled via in app flow like a first party payment, and intentionally making a 3rd party choice potentially impossible to compete vs a 1st party choice by arguably hiding part of the processing fee margin in the overall fee would be the kinds of arg…

I think the percentage charged is very relevant though. And the fact the developer is to hide the fee and not list it on the receipt (subscription: $10, Apple tax: $3) And the fact you cannot charge less for the same service if you sold it outside the platform (as you'd like to do as you didn't need to collect the Apple tax).

The fact that your example has a lower apple tax than actual ($3.9 apple tax for $13.0 subscription, not $3.0 as you've stated in the example where a developer would itemize the price or tariff) and none of the people who replied to you noticed is very relevant, too, in the same context as your comment.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#888

Post by square_usual »

squigglydonut wrote: post #881
mentos wrote: post #879

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious to know what frameworks you are using?

Nextjs and native browser components that I style in ways that are familiar to mobile app users. So like , and you use CSS to give it 8px border radius and 48px height. Since I'm going for a material style with an iOS feel I mix the forms. Another example is I use a hamburger menu but I use sf symbols light "icon" as an SVG.

SF Symbols are copyrighted. You should be careful about your usage of them in a non-Apple-approved manner.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#889

Post by CountSessine »

At some point I guess Apple will have to give up the 30% and instead charge more directly for their costs associated with running the App Store, namely hosting costs (probably very small) and the cost of testing and reviews (probably larger). If there are competitive App Store's, that where all of the free software will wind up.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#890

Post by evanmoran »

gretch wrote: post #876
Mikho wrote: post #714

The real problem with the Apple Tax — it ruins value-chain and makes it uneconomical For every value created a customer receives there is value captured by a company paid by this customer. Let's say a company creates a service valued as 1X by the customer and the customer pays 1X for that. This balance guarantees accessibility and interest among many customers. Apple tax demands for a customer to pay 1.43X for the sa…

I applaud you taking personal action and voting with your wallet / dev cycles. > it ruins value-chain and makes it uneconomical This is empirically not true. If the value-chain is so 'ruined' and 'uneconomical'. Why are there so many iOS devs? Lots of people are participating in the system and lots of people are getting rich. Examples of truly uneconomical ecosystems are Windows Phone and Blackberry - which is why al…

I don't believe you're accurate. All apps that could charge money through Apple payments stopped doing so long ago and now are "free" with an external subscription or ads: Netflix, Amazon Prime, Microsoft Office, Slack, Google Docs/Drive, Dropbox, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Hey Email, etc. Only free-to-play games / gambling / scam apps stayed in the App Store, and the rest are gone.
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