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Show HN: I got tired of stressing about my karma, so I wrote this.

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Re: Show HN: I got tired of stressing about my karma, so I wrote this.

#31

Post by recoiledsnake »

jasonlotito wrote: post #18
ot wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it has certainly made me be more careful in the comments I've made. Isn't this the ultimate form of groupthink?

Often times the people complaining about groupthink are also the ones acting immature. If you inject in your comment the feel of someone trying to rebel ("I know I'm going to get down voted..." or "I hate to be that guy..."), you're already starting off wrong. Act the part of an adult and you'll be treated like one. I've found that if I spend a few minutes to justify my belief, and approach the discussion as that of…

>Often times the people complaining about groupthink are also the ones acting immature.

Not everytime though. Especially in topics like Microsoft/Apple/Google, the moderation is brutal if you don't fit in the groupthink.

A big example: http://winsupersite.com is hellbanned on HN from being submitted as a story(if you do it will show up for you, but actually it's killed so won't show up for others at all). What crime could the site have possibly committed to deserve such an extreme banning(there are no instances of other tech sites that I know of getting banned, can you give me any?).

Post complaining about the banning: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3408883

The answer is simple, the site is of Microsoft watcher, insider and enthusiast Paul Thurrott who posts breaking news, analysis and reviews with a sometimes positive slant. That is enough for some "enthusiasts" of other platforms here to flag it to death and ultimately to hellbanning. I am guessing someone who innocently submits stories from there regularly will get their account hellbanned to, for not conforming to the groupthink on here.

This is just the visible tip of the iceberg of the groupthink which downvotes comments and flags any legitimate news that doesn't conform.

You think the point in this post is just a figment of the author's imagination? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3663447

Another example of legitimate news getting flagged to death:

http://i.imgur.com/fSJqq.png

How long before Winbeta is hellbanned from ever appearing on HN for being a Windows-centric news site?

Just because you haven't experienced this does not mean that others have not constantly been downvoted for their (non disrespectful) opinions. I believe that's behind their defensive "I know I am going to get downvoted..." lines.

Re: Show HN: I got tired of stressing about my karma, so I wrote this.

#32

Post by jaysonelliot »

J3L2404 wrote: post #21
jaysonelliot wrote: post #9

I like the karma system overall, and I think the general quality of discussion on HN is evidence that things are mostly working well. The only thing I find off about it is the average karma on profile pages. Personally, I find that it subconsciously dissuades me from commenting anywhere that is likely to result in few/no upvotes. My first comment on a story might get 20, 40, 80 upvotes, but any extended discussion is…

Updates to your karma average are a rolling average and updated asychronously. Basically it takes your comments numbered 6-50, throws out the highest-scoring one, and averages them.

If karma average were based on only those comments between 6 and 50 points, everyone's average would be between 6 and 50 points. That's not the case.

Can you elaborate?

Re: Show HN: I got tired of stressing about my karma, so I wrote this.

#33

Post by J3L2404 »

jaysonelliot wrote: post #32
J3L2404 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Updates to your karma average are a rolling average and updated asychronously. Basically it takes your comments numbered 6-50, throws out the highest-scoring one, and averages them.

If karma average were based on only those comments between 6 and 50 points, everyone's average would be between 6 and 50 points. That's not the case. Can you elaborate?

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3148927

Re: Show HN: I got tired of stressing about my karma, so I wrote this.

#34

Post by Karunamon »

Something I'd like to see is a "HN Enhancement Suite", kind of like Reddit. I don't at this time have the JS chops to pull something like this off, but what I'd add:

    * User tagging
    * Un-hellbanning per user (Find someone who has legitimate contributions yet is hellbanned? Restores their posts to a normal color and moves their post closer to the top in a thread)
    * Ignore text lightening for downvoted posts
    * Hide post on flag or downvote
    * Popups on username mouseover with profile page info
    * Custom CSS (why not?)
    * An "ignore karma" switch. Hides comment thread vote arrows, ignores hellbans and text coloring, hides all mention of points anywhere on the site.
    * Ignore option, hides all posts by a given user

Re: Show HN: I got tired of stressing about my karma, so I wrote this.

#35

Post by jaysonelliot »

J3L2404 wrote: post #33
jaysonelliot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If karma average were based on only those comments between 6 and 50 points, everyone's average would be between 6 and 50 points. That's not the case. Can you elaborate?

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3148927

I see, thanks. I misunderstood your comment to mean that karma was calculated on comments between 6 and 50 points, instead of what you meant, which is the last 50 comments minus the five most recent.

Unfortunately, it doesn't weight for in-depth discussions or comments on less-popular articles.

Re: Show HN: I got tired of stressing about my karma, so I wrote this.

#37

Post by Flow »

hackermom wrote: post #25
n9com wrote: post #13

If any of you are 'stressing' about a pointless number next to your username, then I think you need to take a step back and put things into perspective.

I think that's good advice, and I would like to send it along also to the tiny-minded portion of users here on HN who campaign personal, pityful battles on others by systematically downvoting their posts for no apparent reason, as well as those who just can't seem to let things fly, but rather just have to hammer down on users with opinions they simply don't agree with. I think the karma system as it stands now is pr…

Who can down-vote? Not me. Seems to me that it's people who have written lots of good comments that can down-vote. And of course, people running scripts that help them achieve high karma that they can abuse.

A simple "I Like This" without any count would be enough IMHO.

Or at least a simple rule that you can only down-vote if you write a positively karma'd comment to the post you down-vote.

Re: Show HN: I got tired of stressing about my karma, so I wrote this.

#38

Post by ot »

jasonlotito wrote: post #18
ot wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it has certainly made me be more careful in the comments I've made. Isn't this the ultimate form of groupthink?

Often times the people complaining about groupthink are also the ones acting immature. If you inject in your comment the feel of someone trying to rebel ("I know I'm going to get down voted..." or "I hate to be that guy..."), you're already starting off wrong. Act the part of an adult and you'll be treated like one. I've found that if I spend a few minutes to justify my belief, and approach the discussion as that of…

But there is a clear fear of downvotes, as you point out many start with "I know I'm going to get down voted", a few weeks ago someone posted the HN search for "I don't mean to be ...", but also look at "genuinely curious": http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=genuinely+c... .

I'm wondering if this kind of social pressure is preventing the less confident people to express their respectable opinions.

Re: Show HN: I got tired of stressing about my karma, so I wrote this.

#39

Post by jasonlotito »

recoiledsnake wrote: post #31
jasonlotito wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often times the people complaining about groupthink are also the ones acting immature. If you inject in your comment the feel of someone trying to rebel ("I know I'm going to get down voted..." or "I hate to be that guy..."), you're already starting off wrong. Act the part of an adult and you'll be treated like one. I've found that if I spend a few minutes to justify my belief, and approach the discussion as that of…

>Often times the people complaining about groupthink are also the ones acting immature. Not everytime though. Especially in topics like Microsoft/Apple/Google, the moderation is brutal if you don't fit in the groupthink. A big example: http://winsupersite.com is hellbanned on HN from being submitted as a story(if you do it will show up for you, but actually it's killed so won't show up for others at all). What crime…

> Not everytime though.

No doubt. Hence my careful phrasing. =)

> Just because you haven't experienced this...

I have. But even then, if I take an honest look at what I wrote, I find I could easily discern how it comes off as me acting the part of an asshole.

You post several examples (of which many are merely people complaining about downvotes which aren't contributing anything meaningful and should not be encouraged), but really, they mean anything. There will always be exceptions, but they only prove their is no groupthink beyond being respectful, intelligent, and contributing to the discussion.

> I believe that's behind their defensive "I know I am going to get downvoted..." lines.

Honestly, if someone spends more time writing "I know I'm going to get downvoted... HN groupthink... go ahead downvote me but you know I'm right..." then they do putting thought into their comment, I will down vote. Stop worrying about little arrows, and just be polite, post intelligently, and contribute.

Re: Show HN: I got tired of stressing about my karma, so I wrote this.

#40

Post by jasonlotito »

devgutt wrote: post #26
jasonlotito wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often times the people complaining about groupthink are also the ones acting immature. If you inject in your comment the feel of someone trying to rebel ("I know I'm going to get down voted..." or "I hate to be that guy..."), you're already starting off wrong. Act the part of an adult and you'll be treated like one. I've found that if I spend a few minutes to justify my belief, and approach the discussion as that of…

Entrepreneurs are rebels. But in HN you have to contain yourself to not "hurt anyone". Know what, i like all kind of comments, especially the harsh ones. I just ignore the stupid parts and go on. I don´t read the comments emotionally.

> Entrepreneurs are rebels. But in HN you have to contain yourself to not "hurt anyone".

That's an excuse that unprofessional people use to try to excuse their poor behavior. It's the same problem that "brogrammers" are having when they offend people with their "tits or gtfo" attitude. Just to be sure, I'm not intending to imply you are like these people.

And don't confuse HN's brand of entrepreneurs with rebels. They are far from rebels. They are playing a well established, very old game. Their attitude is not a result of the rebellion against any system (they are playing within the system), but rather the very simple fact of where they came from and their upbringing. The common entrepreneur is professional, polite, and intelligent. They aren't pretending to be a rebel. They are starting a company.

While I applaud your ability to read past the rude comments, the simple fact is, this is a discussion. And rude comments are meant to be that: rude. And many people here want to promote civil discourse, not rude, emotional, immature outbursts.

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