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US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

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Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#861

Post by itsoktocry »

eaglelamp wrote: post #812
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's incredible is the idea that an argument or a point of view is somehow invalidated purely because it happens to side with the trillion dollar company. This is in the same vein as "this cause is supported by teh evil Amerika, hence it must be evil" line of thinking, typically espoused by self-declared anti-imperialists (who are often mere anti-US-imperialists). >make a few people who already have everything even…

It's not incredible it is just a different view point. In your second paragraph you take a utilitarian point of view in which case the size of an organization is irrelevant so long as it produces a net gain for society. An alternative view values human freedom and autonomy. From this perspective the size of an organization is relevant - a large enough organization can impose its will on individuals who don't wish to…

>It's not incredible it is just a different view point...Neither viewpoint is wrong

Claiming that Apple is "stealing" their cut of commission is definitely wrong.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#862

Post by politician »

iamcasen wrote: post #853
interpol_p wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you can sign up for Spotify using in-app-purchase. Once you're in the app it says: "You can't upgrade to premium in the app. We know, it's not ideal" You have to go to their site to upgrade your account. Apple gets a 0% cut of Spotify's subscription revenue

I believe that is a special deal that apple made them which does not apply across the board.

Apple will approve apps that prevent sign-up in the app. The problem is that they will deny you the ability to even tell the customers where to go to sign up. Notice that the message displayed in the Spotify app doesn't have a link, doesn't even mention that you can sign up on their website. The customer has to infer that that is what's going on -- good on Spotify for using "premium" as a trigger word because Apple rejects apps that contain the words "purchase" and "subscription" _anywhere_ in your app if you're not using IAP. We were rejected once because those words appeared in an error message sent from the server.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#863

Post by xnx »

4pkjai wrote: post #433
55555 wrote: post #402

Google should update the Chrome TOS so that they get 30% of all sales placed through Chrome, regardless of payment processor used. They're missing out on trillions of dollars and all they have to do is update their TOS!

A lot of businesses spend more than 30% of their products cost on Google Ads. I know plenty of people who sell something for $20, and spend $30 on Google Ads to get that user to their site.

Competitors set those prices, not Google.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#864

Post by rustcleaner »

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #681
cryptonym wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fair statement, you may like Apple payment even if it adds 30% to whatever you are buying. What is not fair is forcing everyone into this. If I'm selling content, why couldn't I give customer the choice between: - Paying the 30% Apple cut and benefiting from everything you like about this - Buying directly, cheaper, without Apple cut (or maybe with a tiny cut if that make any sense, removing only 3pt is a jo…

Because it's Apple's marketplace and Apple's customers. They spent billions on hardware, software, R&D, marketing and operations. Why would they give another business a free access to a billion of their customers? You want to earn money of Apple's customers? Then pay Apple a revenue share of the money you get from their customers. That's how pretty much any marketplace works in the world. From your local Target to Sa…

Apple does not create that kind of value; it hoodwinks buyers with a pretty interface and its cultish marketing. Like any hazing ritual or circumcision, the new apple user feels he put in a heavy cost to join what appears to him to be an elite class (but really a marketing trick). The new user is now complete and ready to defend his newly acquired identity in internet forum posts critical of it.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#865

Post by kesavvaranasi »

I don't understand why Apple is asking for a commission if the developer is implementing their own payment flow. If Apple is still mandating that you offer in-app purchase as an option alongside a custom payment flow, then Apple charging a commission for both options seems excessive.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#866

Post by rustcleaner »

dnissley wrote: post #854
andersa wrote: post #373

It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.

It's super easy to avoid all of this drama: Do not buy an iPhone. Almost any other phone will allow you to download and install arbitrary programs from any source that offers them. It's quite wonderful. It amazes me that people would rather force apple to open up through dubious court cases than simply buy a different device.

Nothing in current smartphone-land beats a Google Pixel running GrapheneOS.

Put GrapheneOS on your phone(s) and Qubes OS on PC(s), and you have the world's two most secure and owner-respecting operating systems in existence today!!!! :^)

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#867

Post by SllX »

eaglelamp wrote: post #812
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's incredible is the idea that an argument or a point of view is somehow invalidated purely because it happens to side with the trillion dollar company. This is in the same vein as "this cause is supported by teh evil Amerika, hence it must be evil" line of thinking, typically espoused by self-declared anti-imperialists (who are often mere anti-US-imperialists). >make a few people who already have everything even…

It's not incredible it is just a different view point. In your second paragraph you take a utilitarian point of view in which case the size of an organization is irrelevant so long as it produces a net gain for society. An alternative view values human freedom and autonomy. From this perspective the size of an organization is relevant - a large enough organization can impose its will on individuals who don't wish to…

> An alternative view values human freedom and autonomy.

That is some choice rhetoric with a particular bias, but not a distinct point of view from people arguing for freedom and autonomy for Apple’s business practices.

The corporation is a legal fiction, but it’s still human owned, operated, and staffed, and reflects the millions (billions?) of choices that get made by individuals working together to accomplish whatever it is the corporation does. In Apple’s case, that gestalt includes running the App Store at a price to developers that they see fit who choose to do business with them.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#868

Post by [deleted] »

andersa wrote: post #373

It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.

[deleted]

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#869

Post by winter_blue »

roenxi wrote: post #310
winter_blue wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple argued from the very beginning that the 30% was its fee for running the App Store, marketing the apps, and storing and delivering the app bundles. The cost of operating an App Store and providing distribution is relatively negligible. Several Linux distros have app stores, and package management and distribution systems that are as good or superior than Apple’s. The annual fee that Apple charges developers al…

The cost of a human working all day is negligible; they need a little bit of food. And yet they still expect to be paid - sometimes quite a lot. Just based on your quote and without having much interest in the case... the fee isn't about covering costs. They have an app store, people want to be in the app store, and Apple is going to charge them a fee to be in the app store. Similar logic to drawing a wage.

> cost of a human working all day is negligible

This is bad analogy. A person who works provides services or labor worth a certain amount of value in exchange. Often that value exceeds the wage. For example, a software engineer $3000 "worth" of work in a day, but only gets paid around $1000 for that day. I understand the worth/value is a difficult thing to measure.

In Apple's, they provide almost nothing of value in exchange, other than the threat to kick your app out of the App Store: https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21366438/apple-fortnite-i...

So Apple is more like the Mafia. The threaten negative/adverse action, if you don't pay them.

Also, historically, software could be installed on computers without the permission of an overlord. I'm aware iOS & game consoles are glaring exceptions.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#870

Post by noapologies »

jwagenet wrote: post #834
barbariangrunge wrote: post #829

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does windows deserve 30%? what about your isp? Or your motherboard manufacturer? What about nvidia? Should every single company providing you software or hardware take a cut, or only apple? We should own our own computers

Pretty much every middleman or service provider in every industry takes a cut, whether by charging you more than they paid or a fee for their service. For some reason people think software is uniquely exempt from this transaction. Nvidia and your motherboard manufacturer already charged you for the product they provided and you also paid for the fee Dell or Newegg charged on top. Your isp is charging you a fee for un…

Sure, but the cut is a fixed amount based upon the value of the services the middleman is providing. And most importantly, it is not a percentage of the revenue the customer is able to generate by using these services - these two models are polar opposites.

A great example that highlights this absurdity is vehicle ownership - imagine if Tesla announced tomorrow that they are actually a "transportation platform" and started charging Uber drivers a percentage of their revenue, or Mazda found out about the weekend race you did in a Miata and is demanding a cut of the winnings.

Businesses would love perfect price discrimination in every context (because profits!), but is not clear to me how that is a desirable state for humanity.

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