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Show HN: I got tired of stressing about my karma, so I wrote this.

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Re: Show HN: I got tired of stressing about my karma, so I wrote this.

#11

Post by chris_wot »

anthonyb wrote: post #10
chris_wot wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. The purpose of this site is for news about Hackers and startups, or as the FAQ says "Anything that good hackers would find interesting". One of the issues with snark is that it doesn't foster appropriate communication - instead it makes people get defensive or react badly. There are ways of stating disagreement without being nasty, defensive or arrogant. It's a good thing :-) As in RL, thinking before you…

I disagree. There are plenty of snarky people on HN who know what they're talking about and aren't afraid to tell you. Unfortunately, that means that they get a disproportionate share of downvoting groupthink. Perhaps the saddest example (for us) that I can think of is CPlatypus ( http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=CPlatypus ). Apparently a start up veteran, works at RedHat - I don't know what his blog is. I traw…

If they have responded with an inflammatory reply, I understand why they have been downvoted. I agree with you about the contributor CPlatypus, he did have a lot of insightful comments. However, he also frequently accused others (including pg!) of being liars, etc.

For the record, the hell banning practices are extremely disconcerting on Hacker News. On the original site that hellbanning was designed for, it was to slow down trolls, not those who responded in a controversial way. That there is no way of appealing to being hell banned is definitely a negative of contributing to this site: you'll never know you that you need to change your behaviour, and there is no way of fixing the issue - even if you were an insightful contributor such as CPlatypus.

Anyway, I think I've said my piece on this matter - I don't want to be controversial myself so I'll refrain from commenting more on the practices of those who are in ultimate control of this site.

Re: Show HN: I got tired of stressing about my karma, so I wrote this.

#12

Post by anthonyb »

chris_wot wrote: post #11
anthonyb wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. There are plenty of snarky people on HN who know what they're talking about and aren't afraid to tell you. Unfortunately, that means that they get a disproportionate share of downvoting groupthink. Perhaps the saddest example (for us) that I can think of is CPlatypus ( http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=CPlatypus ). Apparently a start up veteran, works at RedHat - I don't know what his blog is. I traw…

If they have responded with an inflammatory reply, I understand why they have been downvoted. I agree with you about the contributor CPlatypus, he did have a lot of insightful comments. However, he also frequently accused others (including pg!) of being liars, etc. For the record, the hell banning practices are extremely disconcerting on Hacker News. On the original site that hellbanning was designed for, it was to s…

For the record, his suggestion to openly commit to not use patents was taken up recently by Twitter and widely applauded, although he copped an amazing amount of flak at the time. I found his blog though, so all is not lost: http://pl.atyp.us/wordpress/

In this case, hellbanning just demonstrates that HN is run by a private cabal. Whoever it is can run it in their own way I guess, but without any oversight they're likely to ban people for the wrong reason and with no recourse, and doing so doesn't contribute to things like voting quality.

Re: Show HN: I got tired of stressing about my karma, so I wrote this.

#14

Post by waterlesscloud »

jaysonelliot wrote: post #9

I like the karma system overall, and I think the general quality of discussion on HN is evidence that things are mostly working well. The only thing I find off about it is the average karma on profile pages. Personally, I find that it subconsciously dissuades me from commenting anywhere that is likely to result in few/no upvotes. My first comment on a story might get 20, 40, 80 upvotes, but any extended discussion is…

Once I realized that most of my karma was coming from my most casual comments, I stopped attaching much importance to it at all.

Re: Show HN: I got tired of stressing about my karma, so I wrote this.

#15

Post by pge »

kenrikm wrote: post #2

I follow this simple rule when dealing with trolls online. "Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" It's better not to engage in the first place.

Your rule reminds me of Mark Twain's line, "never argue with a fool; a bystander may not be able to tell the difference."

Re: Show HN: I got tired of stressing about my karma, so I wrote this.

#16

Post by eternalban »

chris_wot wrote: post #11
anthonyb wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. There are plenty of snarky people on HN who know what they're talking about and aren't afraid to tell you. Unfortunately, that means that they get a disproportionate share of downvoting groupthink. Perhaps the saddest example (for us) that I can think of is CPlatypus ( http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=CPlatypus ). Apparently a start up veteran, works at RedHat - I don't know what his blog is. I traw…

If they have responded with an inflammatory reply, I understand why they have been downvoted. I agree with you about the contributor CPlatypus, he did have a lot of insightful comments. However, he also frequently accused others (including pg!) of being liars, etc. For the record, the hell banning practices are extremely disconcerting on Hacker News. On the original site that hellbanning was designed for, it was to s…

> including pg!

gasp! /s

Re: Show HN: I got tired of stressing about my karma, so I wrote this.

#17

Post by scrrr »

jaysonelliot wrote: post #9

I like the karma system overall, and I think the general quality of discussion on HN is evidence that things are mostly working well. The only thing I find off about it is the average karma on profile pages. Personally, I find that it subconsciously dissuades me from commenting anywhere that is likely to result in few/no upvotes. My first comment on a story might get 20, 40, 80 upvotes, but any extended discussion is…

Karma matters to me. It puts the good replies on the top of the page, the bad ones move down. And that´s the main purpose I think.

Re: Show HN: I got tired of stressing about my karma, so I wrote this.

#18

Post by jasonlotito »

ot wrote: post #7
chris_wot wrote: post #4

I actually quite like the Karma system. I think that the way that it's implemented on Hacker News is pretty awesome - it has certainly made me be more careful in the comments I've made. I have actually made one or two snarky comments, but I immediately went back and deleted them before anyone replied. Other times it's been a misunderstanding, and being downvoted helped me understand that something wasn't quite right.…

> it has certainly made me be more careful in the comments I've made. Isn't this the ultimate form of groupthink?

Often times the people complaining about groupthink are also the ones acting immature. If you inject in your comment the feel of someone trying to rebel ("I know I'm going to get down voted..." or "I hate to be that guy..."), you're already starting off wrong. Act the part of an adult and you'll be treated like one.

I've found that if I spend a few minutes to justify my belief, and approach the discussion as that of peers rather than assuming my opinion is all that matters, things go very well, even when we disagree.

So yeah, HN does have an element of groupthink: that those who are disrespectful are not welcome here, regardless of their opinion. Most likely, their opinion can be found in other comments but written by someone that is looking to engage in an adult conversation and not out to belittle or insult the rest of us.

Re: Show HN: I got tired of stressing about my karma, so I wrote this.

#19

Post by sbierwagen »

jasonlotito wrote: post #18
ot wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it has certainly made me be more careful in the comments I've made. Isn't this the ultimate form of groupthink?

Often times the people complaining about groupthink are also the ones acting immature. If you inject in your comment the feel of someone trying to rebel ("I know I'm going to get down voted..." or "I hate to be that guy..."), you're already starting off wrong. Act the part of an adult and you'll be treated like one. I've found that if I spend a few minutes to justify my belief, and approach the discussion as that of…

This is correct. Essentially every single one of my 500+ comments is expressing disagreement, yet I only get downvoted if I do something stupid.

On HN, the submissions run media hot (since submissions can only be upvoted, not downvoted) while comments run media cold. (where logic and reasonableness are much more highly valued than in the submissions)

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