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US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

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Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#801

Post by nvarsj »

nevir wrote: post #469
remus wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think apple's 30% cut is excessive, but I don't think this line of argument helps. We should discuss the points on their merits, not based on who's making them and how much money they have.

Here's a little story / timeline from 2009-2010 (from my perspective as a dev on Kindle for iOS): * we submit the Kindle app ...including an in-app bookstore... to Apple for initial app review (Note: multiple ebook readers with in-app bookstores are already on the app store at this point) * several weeks pass with no response * Apple announces in-app purchasing (to be released several months later) * Apple rejects ou…

Apples behaviour vis a vis the App Store is the textbook definition of monopolistic practices. It’s beyond the pale these stories. The only reason I can think it continues is because there are a lot of AAPL holders in Congress.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#802

Post by savanaly »

andersa wrote: post #373

It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.

What about their customers? Am I allowed to speak up for their freedom to engage in consensual commerce? Or is that craven of me as well?

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#803

Post by aaomidi »

jacquesm wrote: post #90
aaomidi wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Victim blaming and expects a mass market behavior change is not good, or realistic.

Victims don't normally collaborate with their abuser. edit: here's one of the 'victims': https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39022303

> Victims don't normally collaborate with their abuser.

Lmao, except, they literally do.

This is why leaving an abusive relationship is so fucking hard.

Android and iOS have an abusive relationship with developers.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#804

Post by nailer »

tivert wrote: post #797
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's incredible is the idea that an argument or a point of view is somehow invalidated purely because it happens to side with the trillion dollar company. This is in the same vein as "this cause is supported by teh evil Amerika, hence it must be evil" line of thinking, typically espoused by self-declared anti-imperialists (who are often mere anti-US-imperialists). >make a few people who already have everything even…

> What's incredible is the idea that an argument or a point of view is somehow invalidated purely because it happens to side with the trillion dollar company. What's incredible is how people waste their tiny amount of personal energy defending their exploitation by a corporation that has vastly more resources than them and objectively does not need their help. Apple is probably the poster child for effectively using…

It's because people are defending the principle, not Apple.

I think Apple is wrong, but I don't think they're wrong because they're successful - in fact I think saying Apple is wrong because they're successful is against the concept of objective reality and not appropriate for HN.

The idea that Apple are wrong because they're successful is the same awful thinking that advocates for violence or systemic discrimination against people based on their skin color (because they're considered 'successful') and is abhorrent.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#805

Post by crazygringo »

Podgajski wrote: post #787
timtom39 wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do wonder what percentage of Apple stock is owned by pension funds and the like, i.e. The Regular Person, once you unwind the levels of indirection (mutual funds, etc). It is surely a double digit percentage, but high, low? No idea. Pretty high. The S&P 500 has ~7% apple stock which means many peoples retirement accounts have several percentage points of apple stock.

So Apple takes 30% of your money from one hand and gives you back 3% with the other?

More like the opposite.

If you had $1,000 invested in Apple around ten years ago (a reasonable amount in a retirement fund), you'd have made around another $8,500 by now.

While if you'd spent $1,000 on apps and subscriptions over 10 years, Apple would have taken $300.

So Apple would take $300 of your money from one hand and give you back $8500 with the other.

That's a difference almost 3x larger than the difference you suggested... but in the opposite direction!

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#806

Post by zamadatix »

threeseed wrote: post #275
MBCook wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throughout the multiple trials that has been a big argument Apple makes. That especially for smaller companies their cut is drastically lower than it would have been for retail software on shelves. Which conveniently ignores the fact that you can buy software for digital download on the Internet for significantly lower overhead. But they keep arguing it.

> buy software for digital download on the Internet for significantly lower overhead But you are looking at that through the lens of an end user. As a developer, Apple's total acquisition cost i.e. 15/30% is far less than what it costs me to acquire customers through other channels e.g. Paid Ads, Referral etc.

And if another developer disagrees for their app it doesn't matter because it made sense for you?

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#807

Post by seec »

merrywhether wrote: post #726
pjc50 wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a small amount compared to retail; it's a large amount compared to a download; and it's infinitely larger than the 0% platform royalty required by IBM-compatible PCs.

That 0% platform royalty was on top of the $300 flat fee for the Windows operating system (or however much, I never ran Windows myself), whereas iOS is technically free (no fee for major updates). You’re paying for the OS/platform one way or another.

Very few people bought Windows separately, its price was bundled with the hardware sale just like it is with iOS. This is a completely moot point.

You could try to argue that Apple give more value by supporting longer, but then again you would be completely wrong (some hardware manufacturer are not super good at supporting their stuff for the very long term, but windows in itself has a support timeline way beyond anything Apple ever did...)

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#808

Post by fennecfoxy »

andersa wrote: post #373

It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.

"B-b-but Google and others do it, too!"

I'd like to quote a passage from Reamde by Neal Stephenson: "So what are you going to do?" Yuxia asked. "Maybe tag along. Like escorting a drunk president home after a long night in the bar." "Didn't you say you had to make a phone call?" "I have been trained by the United States government," Seamus said, "to do more than one thing at a time."

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#809

Post by rurp »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #751
andersa wrote: post #373

It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.

What's incredible is the idea that an argument or a point of view is somehow invalidated purely because it happens to side with the trillion dollar company. This is in the same vein as "this cause is supported by teh evil Amerika, hence it must be evil" line of thinking, typically espoused by self-declared anti-imperialists (who are often mere anti-US-imperialists). >make a few people who already have everything even…

93% of stock wealth is held by 10% of Americans; the amount of Apple held by The Regular Person is relatively miniscule.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38958534

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#810

Post by fennecfoxy »

slimsag wrote: post #568
nevir wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a little story / timeline from 2009-2010 (from my perspective as a dev on Kindle for iOS): * we submit the Kindle app ...including an in-app bookstore... to Apple for initial app review (Note: multiple ebook readers with in-app bookstores are already on the app store at this point) * several weeks pass with no response * Apple announces in-app purchasing (to be released several months later) * Apple rejects ou…

This may be the funniest and saddest thing I've read all year. So $MEGACORP abuses their absolute monopolistic position in the market to underhandedly negotiate with book publishers and force their hand into working the way $MEGACORP wants: in order to gain access to $MEGACORPs completely dominated (but technically not a monopoly*) audience who wishes to buy books in a convenient way online, book publishers must bow…

And the losers at the end of the day, are the consumers. Amazon & Apple are still making money hand over fist.
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