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Why Are American Cities Squalid?

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41–50 of 54 posts

Re: Why Are American Cities Squalid?

#41
post #38

"it has always been jarring to come home to the US, often from much poorer countries — in this case Bulgaria — to find that our infrastructure is infinitely worse" In a way, the infrastructure is poorer because the US are richer. Better infrastructure means higher taxes, which not only cost money, but incentive. With enough money you can overcome the issues of poor infrastructure. Bad public transport? Uber is even b…

A lot of people think "suburbs bad" but really its more a side effect to how decentralized the US is, politically and economically.

There's a wide range of population centers and surrounding suburbs with their own economies that flourish.

We are not like your typical Western European country (or Japan) that has 1 city containing the national government, best colleges, and biggest companies in the economy.

So there's a relief valve at the top whereby anyone of even moderate means can relocate themselves to follow the money / their passion / whatever.

Re: Why Are American Cities Squalid?

#42

Many countries just hide poverty and homelessness. For instance by sending them all to a district foreigners don’t go to or know about.

As a visitor to many Western Europe / rich Asia cities, this is a fair point. Being in the business district / rich residential / fancy shopping districts, you'd be hard pressed in most of those cities to actually walk into a "bad part of town". In NYC and a lot of US cities, things can vary from block to block. You could live in Manhattan in a $3M apartment and the nearest grocery is the same one that NYCHA resident…

>You'd not expect that (2 drug/gang related murders in the last 2 years, and it's also the first stop into Brooklyn from Manhattan.)

Is that a lot, or not a lot, to expect [EU perspective. I'd....expect....fewer than 2 in 2?

Re: Why Are American Cities Squalid?

#43

America is one of the few countries in the world where a majority of the population lives in the suburbs, in single family homes and large apartments, with almost universal automobile ownership. It is designed this way, by both the federal and state government through prioritizing highways over passenger rail, and local governments by prioritizing local roads and parking over public transportation and pedestrian and…

> with almost universal automobile ownership

Around 92% of US households have at least one car. That's higher, but not a lot higher, than some European countries.

France was around 86% in 2015.

I couldn't find recent household car data for Germany, but did find that 72% say they own their own car, 7% said that they have a company car, and 13% said they use a family member's car.

In Italy 89% of households own a car.

Re: Why Are American Cities Squalid?

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no budget, it got cut so multimillionaires could get tax breaks.

People love to throw this assertion at every American city problem, but really if you are rich in a blue coastal US city, you basically pay Western Europe level income taxes all-in. A $1M income for a single person in NYC results in an all-in effective tax rate of 46% with a marginal tax rate a bit higher than that. Plus we have fairly high property taxes so if you were to own say a 3 bedroom apartment commensurate w…

Uhh, there's been repeated tax reductions since the 80s.

We all, the upper brackets in particular, pay less taxes than we would be 30-40 years ago.

The rich also have tools to reduce their taxes further, like deferrals, that's how Trump didn't pay taxes for several years.

Re: Why Are American Cities Squalid?

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a visitor to many Western Europe / rich Asia cities, this is a fair point. Being in the business district / rich residential / fancy shopping districts, you'd be hard pressed in most of those cities to actually walk into a "bad part of town". In NYC and a lot of US cities, things can vary from block to block. You could live in Manhattan in a $3M apartment and the nearest grocery is the same one that NYCHA resident…

>You'd not expect that (2 drug/gang related murders in the last 2 years, and it's also the first stop into Brooklyn from Manhattan.) Is that a lot, or not a lot, to expect [EU perspective. I'd....expect....fewer than 2 in 2?

It's a lot because I mean literally at the subway station.

There are 472 subway stations in NYC, and generally less than 400 murders city-wide per year.

Generally murders happen a lot of places other than just subway stations, so having a murder at my subway station 2 years in a row is.. surprising.

Re: Why Are American Cities Squalid?

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People love to throw this assertion at every American city problem, but really if you are rich in a blue coastal US city, you basically pay Western Europe level income taxes all-in. A $1M income for a single person in NYC results in an all-in effective tax rate of 46% with a marginal tax rate a bit higher than that. Plus we have fairly high property taxes so if you were to own say a 3 bedroom apartment commensurate w…

Uhh, there's been repeated tax reductions since the 80s. We all, the upper brackets in particular, pay less taxes than we would be 30-40 years ago. The rich also have tools to reduce their taxes further, like deferrals, that's how Trump didn't pay taxes for several years.

For sure taxes are down.

But having my tax rate go from 40% to 55% or 60% isn't going to solve, for example, NYC subway construction costs being 8x per mile more than Paris (a more socialist / strong union / pro-labor country).

So we have a serious cost disease in our cities.

Look at crazy stuff like this - https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/25/us/la-sombrita-bus-los-an...

Re: Why Are American Cities Squalid?

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhh, there's been repeated tax reductions since the 80s. We all, the upper brackets in particular, pay less taxes than we would be 30-40 years ago. The rich also have tools to reduce their taxes further, like deferrals, that's how Trump didn't pay taxes for several years.

For sure taxes are down. But having my tax rate go from 40% to 55% or 60% isn't going to solve, for example, NYC subway construction costs being 8x per mile more than Paris (a more socialist / strong union / pro-labor country). So we have a serious cost disease in our cities. Look at crazy stuff like this - https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/25/us/la-sombrita-bus-los-an...

Your tax rate? no. 50m+ incomes? Yes

But, you're right in that just having more taxes won't fix things. There's serious issues in our governments, local state and federal, around actual costs and mismanagement of projects.

It feels weird to hold the opinion that at the same time we need more pro-union and pro-workers rights movements, and at the same time we need to take a lot of unions and what-not to task. ("why do i need to pay $10k for this light to be turned on?")

Re: Why Are American Cities Squalid?

#48
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nicest cities in the world are far more relaxed and far more giving. As far as I see it the answer is simple. Americans hate paying taxes, love giving their money to the millionaire/billionaire class and jerk themselves off to being mad about homelessness and immigration.

Yep. There is a dearth of love in America and it is very sad. You should've seen how empty the holiday food donation box for my apartment complex was. I swear only one other person donated anything. Also, there are many more churches and religious organizations in cities that lack community outreach and are just a place for the congregation to gather once a week. This is in contrast to the very giving churches and fo…

It's absolutely true. I work 8 hours every other weekend at a local foodbank and donations and volunteers are low. A lot of people like to complain about conditions but few do anything about it. It seems the solution posited by most is simply to criminalize homelessness, which will cost us all much much more.

Re: Why Are American Cities Squalid?

#49

A very complex problem the deeper you investigate this, the less you seem to know. I've done it :) If you look at who is doing it super well, like perhaps Japan? It's largely due to a 99.99% conviction rate on all crime accusations, which I take as a kangaroo court system, into penal labour. I don't think there's much to learn from there. Japan should stop their penal labour. Switzerland, norway do a good job? Which…

> If you research Coleman Young's failures with detroit. NYC is basically following lockstep with how he failed detroit and caused the city of detroit's decline.

Could you explain how Coleman Young caused Detroit's decline? My understanding - but maybe I am wrong - was that the decline was caused by the auto industry gradually moving production out of Detroit and into suburbs in the 1950s, causing massive unemployment among low-mobility black workers in Detroit proper in the 1960s, causing the 1967 riot, causing white and wealthy black families to flee the city, and by the time Coleman Young was elected in 1973, the city was doomed to spiral into economic and social failure.

Re: Why Are American Cities Squalid?

#50

A very complex problem the deeper you investigate this, the less you seem to know. I've done it :) If you look at who is doing it super well, like perhaps Japan? It's largely due to a 99.99% conviction rate on all crime accusations, which I take as a kangaroo court system, into penal labour. I don't think there's much to learn from there. Japan should stop their penal labour. Switzerland, norway do a good job? Which…

> If you research Coleman Young's failures with detroit. NYC is basically following lockstep with how he failed detroit and caused the city of detroit's decline. Could you explain how Coleman Young caused Detroit's decline? My understanding - but maybe I am wrong - was that the decline was caused by the auto industry gradually moving production out of Detroit and into suburbs in the 1950s, causing massive unemploymen…

>Could you explain how Coleman Young caused Detroit's decline? My understanding - but maybe I am wrong - was that the decline was caused by the auto industry gradually moving production out of Detroit and into suburbs in the 1950s, causing massive unemployment among low-mobility black workers in Detroit proper in the 1960s, causing the 1967 riot, causing white and wealthy black families to flee the city, and by the time Coleman Young was elected in 1973, the city was doomed to spiral into economic and social failure.

This subject could be a book. It probably is a book but I dont have any recommendations on hand sorry.

Much of your understanding is correct, if not all. But it's a matter of timing. Worse yet, it's impossible to disconnect the racism factor for sure. But also makes understanding the situation so much worse.

The huge missing factor here is the 'interstate blame' but you cant move the packard plant down the road. That's too costly, businesses will stay as long as they can tolerate.

If you look at metro detroit, it didn't decline until Kwame.

But the big question, why move to the burbs? Why not move to another city? That's the depth which is missing from a wiki page that matters.

Poor unemployed workers is a godsend to businesses. Businesses move in to gain access to high unemployment and cheap labour. Basically Chinese coast 101 and globalism.

Even outside detroit, the flint michigan strikes had lasting major consequences for detroit.

The riots only lasted a few days and were insignificant compared to the BLM riots or the Seattle insurrection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Detroit_riot

These obviously being heavily influenced by MLK and Rosa Parks; but also the underground railroad which saved so many slaves and deposited them in detroit or windsor. But they were only isolated to the black ghetto, white people really didnt care here. The riots never really left the black neighbourhood. The looting was of their own community. Why would white people necessarily be upset to any large degree about 5 days of unrest?

At the time of these riots, unemployment of black people was the same as white people. Roughly around 2-3%. The high unemployment occurred after.

It had everything to do with taxation policies, but you can get away with taxing successful businesses for a long time. If you increase taxes, the army of accountants will crunch the numbers. They figure out the number of years of ROI vs amortization of moving.

when coleman young got into power, 1973. The city was still pretty much white people, but blacks were extremely high turnout to vote and whites were busy in the burbs and didnt vote, voting was heavily down racial lines, and businesses hadnt yet fled to major significance. The interstates allowed commuters to drive into the city. I believe in terms of actual census, blacks didnt get parity with whites until the early 80s.

But the writing was on the wall. Nobody would invest into the city of detroit at that point when they are actively looking at the burbs. No investment means decline, but not significant quick decline.

Coleman right away had to deal with this and he knew it.

You don't hear about racist 'affirmative action' stuff anymore, but that was him. He did that. He had tons of racist policies, taxes were largely speaking only spent on initiatives for black people. It was literally a sort of 'ill get back at you for segregation' which the civil rights act and desegregation had been as expected rocky at best before him. He had pools which were 'blacks only'.

Imagine you're white, you pay increasing amounts of taxes. Your part of the city is declining and poor blacks who arent paying taxes are getting the benefits. Take from the rich, give to the poor. But you can simply leave and deprive the city of your taxes... that's the choice you make.

You then have a competing suburbs who say your taxes will go to your needs. I dont care what skin colour you are, you leave when it's so imbalanced and hostile to your needs.

So in coleman's term he went from a declining detroit into a bankrupt one and black unemployment went sky high because of his actions.

To his credit, he was always great at balancing the budget after this. He learnt what bankruptcy meant.

If I could take a Tardis to 1973, the decline of detroit was barely expected, and certainly not a set in stone reality.

Later on, Coleman tried to attract white people back to the city, but that was so impossible. To make up for his first term and pull out of bankruptcy, his taxation largely speaking targeted white businesses. Making the problem worse.

Detroit had a migrant crisis in exactly the same way NYC is experiencing today. https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/05/us/migrant-crisis-new-york-bu...

They blame texas and arizona...migrants leaving the south for the north. No idea if true, but NYC chose to be a sanctuary city? Do they not want that anymore?

Also in exactly the same way, they have tried to control the populous and have pushed everyone who paid taxes out.

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