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"Software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware becomes faster."

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Re: "Software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware becomes faster."

#171

Post by wredue »

tomtheelder wrote: post #80
wredue wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s actually worse than you think. Functional programmers have been in a massive propaganda campaign to actively paint optimization not just as “usually not necessary”, but actually as a negative thing. Ask any developer what they think of optimization, and the vast majority will respond “optimization is the root of all evil” or some other nonsense variant. Now that they’ve successfully paint optimization as bad, th…

I'm puzzled by this read on the situation. For starters, vanishingly few programmers work in a pure functional context. Secondly, performance characteristics of functional programming are absolutely not dogshit. There are specific languages/VMs/etc that have inherent performance issues, but that's not a universal truth. To claim that would be like pointing at Ruby and saying that imperative programming is slow. I thi…

JS developers have largely accepted the FP way of life, it’s why many JS apps are as slow as they are despite JS being actually quite fast.

Re: "Software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware becomes faster."

#172

Post by wredue »

ado__dev wrote: post #41
wredue wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s actually worse than you think. Functional programmers have been in a massive propaganda campaign to actively paint optimization not just as “usually not necessary”, but actually as a negative thing. Ask any developer what they think of optimization, and the vast majority will respond “optimization is the root of all evil” or some other nonsense variant. Now that they’ve successfully paint optimization as bad, th…

Yeah and personally I've been on both ends of the spectrum. I think there is something to be said for pre-mature optimization and over-optimization. But I do feel like it's a lost art these days.

The quote means to not assume something is slow, but to actually measure it.

Pure Functional Programmers state that you should not even measure performance. They take this position because despite their many claims that Pure FP is performant, it turns out that if you measure it, it’s not performant.

Hence “don’t measure”.

Re: "Software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware becomes faster."

#173

Post by tome »

wredue wrote: post #170
SubjectToChange wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Functional programmers have been in a massive propaganda campaign to actively paint optimization not just as “usually not necessary”, but actually as a negative thing. Based on what? FP advocates like performance as much as anyone else. They need this because the performance characteristics of pure functional programming is pretty dogshit. Research languages like ATS show that functional programming doesn't come at t…

lol. No they don’t. The official line from /r/haskell is “all optimization is the root of all evil”. Nobody is going to use theorem proving languages for a lot of reasons, but actually, mostly cause functional programmers did themselves in with their other ridiculous propaganda campaign to declare that developer time is too expensive. If ATS is a pure functional programming language, then it by definition of how cpus…

> The official line from /r/haskell is “all optimization is the root of all evil”.

That claim doesn't match my experience at all. Can you give some examples of that attitude being demonstrated on /r/haskell?

Re: "Software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware becomes faster."

#174

Post by bufio »

Gigachad wrote: post #105
troupo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Until customers care about performance/optimization They do, Businesses and programmers are incapable of listening to them

Businesses and programmers listen to money. When they don’t, they go out of business. Users primarily care about features first and speed second.

Lost sales due to intolerable slowness definitely occur.

Re: "Software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware becomes faster."

#176

Post by anthk »

pmontra wrote: post #40

Anecdotally this does not apply to my laptop from 2014. It was born with a HDD and upgraded to SSD a couple of years later. It still feels fast enough and, more up to the point, it doesn't feel to get any slower by the years. Actually it's getting faster and that was the feeling I had with my previous laptop from 2006. OK, I've been using Linux on them since January 2009, so no Microsoft software (but Teams is slow,…

Use Telega (Emacs) for Telegram, and try Notmuch with mbsync (isync) and msmtp. If you want I can tweak your ~/.emacs for that.

On Slack, there's a libpurple plugin, and Bitlbee supports that. If you use Erc with Bitlbee, you could connect to any plugin Bitlbee uses (and the internal protocols too OFC).

Re: "Software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware becomes faster."

#177

Post by anthk »

dist-epoch wrote: post #8

I'm not convinced this is true and not just a popular argument. Just today I've processed 4 TB of JSON data, in Python, on a desktop computer. That would be crazy to imagine 10 years ago. Yes, many cores, fast SSD, etc. Maybe it should be 20 TB if ultra optimized, but the capability advance is incredible. Yes, apps maybe start slowly, but now everybody can easily edit HD video on their mid-range laptop.

No, not crazy: https://adamdrake.com/command-line-tools-can-be-235x-faster-...

~10 years ago I parsed 15GB of Windows binary logs with xargs, grep and strings(1) in minutes. Minutes. Less than 1/4 of an hour.

Re: "Software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware becomes faster."

#178

Post by nebula8804 »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #154
nebula8804 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No its a mentality that has been in corporate for decades. The best way for IT to not get in trouble is to lock everything down and define strict policies that prevent any ambiguity and define peoples work requirements in strict categories. This used to be easier with the advent of timeshared terminals but the advent of desktop computing caught them off guard. Now they have done their best to seize back control so mu…

It was a joke/sarcasm.

Well I am not joking. This has been their M.O. for as far as I can remember. It really sucks as I work for a company that is being strangled to death by IT locking down every opportunity for a developer to get anything done and countless meetings where nothing gets accomplished.

Re: "Software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware becomes faster."

#179

Post by Log_out_ »

myself248 wrote: post #2

I've been saying for a while now, that developers and their managers should use a low-spec machine, let's say the 5th-percentile of whatever their users are using in the field, at least one day a week. This might force some reprioritizing of performance and efficiency goals. As long as devs spend their days with bugattis while writing software for corollas, this will continue to get worse.

But it's easier to optimize something to good on best in class, then to go to that from rest in case. Might even expose a developer as incompetent when it comes to hardware optimized software. Slow software bad developers.

Re: "Software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware becomes faster."

#180

Post by rkagerer »

Reading the commentary here justifying shitty code (because "economics") is depressing and makes me want to go work in rocketry or something where quality still counts.

I firmly believe everyone deserves good code. And over the long run if your product sucks it's a competitive opportunity for someone to make a better one and put you out of business.

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