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US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

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Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#721

Post by eptcyka »

todd3834 wrote: post #487
eptcyka wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they care though? As a developer, I either play by the rules and get access to their massive, lucrative market or I just don't. Its not like the investment developers and Dev companies make into their ecosystem can be just moved elsewhere - its all a sunken cost.

Do you really think they wouldn’t care if developers left their platform? They care because it’s beneficial to them. I don’t expect anything else from any corporation including the ones who’ve employed me.

They don't need to care about developers - they cannot leave.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#722

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

remus wrote: post #379
andersa wrote: post #373

It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.

I also think apple's 30% cut is excessive, but I don't think this line of argument helps. We should discuss the points on their merits, not based on who's making them and how much money they have.

Here’s a very simple example. Search ChatGPT in the App Store. The top result is an ad that’s not ChatGPT but looks extremely similar. The top 10 results are basically intended to look as much like the ChatGPT in name and logo as possible.

Ostensibly this 30% cut is supposed to prevent things like this from happening, as Apple argues it uses that money to keep the App Store clean from fraudulent or misrepresenting apps, among other things. There is a much touted “review” process that is supposed to be partially funded by the 30% cut.

So if that isn’t really happening, what, pray tell, is that 30% going towards? It isn’t making the App Store a better experience

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#723

Post by seandoe »

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #681
cryptonym wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fair statement, you may like Apple payment even if it adds 30% to whatever you are buying. What is not fair is forcing everyone into this. If I'm selling content, why couldn't I give customer the choice between: - Paying the 30% Apple cut and benefiting from everything you like about this - Buying directly, cheaper, without Apple cut (or maybe with a tiny cut if that make any sense, removing only 3pt is a jo…

Because it's Apple's marketplace and Apple's customers. They spent billions on hardware, software, R&D, marketing and operations. Why would they give another business a free access to a billion of their customers? You want to earn money of Apple's customers? Then pay Apple a revenue share of the money you get from their customers. That's how pretty much any marketplace works in the world. From your local Target to Sa…

I don't think that's equivalent. If you buy a Ford car, you aren't forced to buy tires from the Ford dealership. You're not a "Ford Customer" beholden to the Ford Motor Company when it comes to everything related to the car. If you buy a Dell desktop you aren't forced to buy all software through a Dell marketplace. I'm sure if these companies could, they would, and apple can and so they do. But is that the world we want? Sure, in a totally "free" market apple should be able to do want ever they want. But are we more interested in freedom for corporations or freedom for people? Would things be better for everyone if we used the power of government to prevent these anticompetitive practices? Why can't apple offer good reason for iPhone users to buy software through their marketplace and take the 30%, all the while allowing users to choose to download software outside of the marketplace?

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#724

Post by ThinkBeat »

I am not that happy with this.

From a legal perspective and the size of Apple I understand why this happened and for the most part I fully agree with the legal arguments.

I went with Android for a well over a decade and it was fun. So many things I could do with it and so many ways to fiddle with it even rooting it. My nerd in me like that.

I had an iPhone for a while and the lack of customizations and fiddling was quite annoying, switched back, then a few years ago I went and got an iPhone for reals (I mean fully knowing what I was giving up).

I was tired of all the Android problems. I didn't enjoy fiddling anymore I had no longer an interest in rooting it. and I was pissed off about 6000 different Android implementations and how older phones lost Android updates quickly leaving plausible security vulnerabilities.

(I suppose Google phones get all the updates for a long time). and usually, one vendor would make their own "enhancements" to the OS anyways.

I became the enemy and embraced the walled garden, the shitty game of move your new app icon around and around to try to fit it where you want it, more expensive hardware/cables etc. In my opinion there is less shit in the app store as well.

As long as the sideloading and whatever else does not impact my phone as long as I dont do it myself I am fine with it. It it leads to more vulnerabilities and other problems for everyone I dont like it.

It is not the 100% great mobile phone. (hello my classic BB), and at times inconvenient but I prefer a nice walled garden and limits on what I can do.

I also prefer all my family and friends to be on the iPhone, if and only if I know I will be providing endless technical support

"uh you need to fix my cellphone!" > ok.,. what phone do you have? Well its a model XXX from YYY company about 4 years old. > Do you know what version of Android its running? ¹ Sure its the VVV version customized for YYY but it has not been updated for over year. > Buy an iPhone.

another day

"uh you need to fix my cellphone!" > ok.,. what phone do you have? " uh it is an iPhone 10" > great. > what is the problem?

¹ In real life there is no way the people I provide with unwilling endless technical support would have even a small inkling of what OS it is running. but it fit the made-up dialog.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#725

Post by taylorius »

remus wrote: post #379
andersa wrote: post #373

It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.

I also think apple's 30% cut is excessive, but I don't think this line of argument helps. We should discuss the points on their merits, not based on who's making them and how much money they have.

Why shouldn't who's making a claim and their money be relevant? Monopolies (and near monopolies) are a bad thing for free markets.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#726

Post by merrywhether »

pjc50 wrote: post #635
ben_w wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. True. > All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer. I'm old enough to have developed software before the App Store existed, and remember that everyone was very excited both buy it…

It's a small amount compared to retail; it's a large amount compared to a download; and it's infinitely larger than the 0% platform royalty required by IBM-compatible PCs.

That 0% platform royalty was on top of the $300 flat fee for the Windows operating system (or however much, I never ran Windows myself), whereas iOS is technically free (no fee for major updates). You’re paying for the OS/platform one way or another.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#727

Post by Darthy »

andersa wrote: post #373

It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.

Apple Vision Pro is coming out soon, with the same terrible rules for app developers.

We should put out an open letter to Apple that we will collectively ignore that product until it contains more favourable terms.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#728

Post by [deleted] »

andersa wrote: post #373

It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.

[deleted]

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#729

Post by spdif899 »

Darthy wrote: post #727
andersa wrote: post #373

It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.

Apple Vision Pro is coming out soon, with the same terrible rules for app developers. We should put out an open letter to Apple that we will collectively ignore that product until it contains more favourable terms.

Great idea, I was totally planning to spend $3500 on a first gen gadget but now you've convinced me not to

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#730

Post by merrywhether »

rezonant wrote: post #674
norman784 wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user I don't care for the 30% cut, what I care is to have a centralised payment method and subscription system, I don't have energy/time to keep with different subscriptions in each service/app and knowing that there are bad actors, they will do whatever possible to make hard to unsubscribe (like a few years ago the NYT, where you could only unsubscribe by phone and was very hard even so). But if even when using…

The inability to unsubscribe should be fixed in the law, not by granting a payments monopoly for all users of a specific operating system or phone model.

It should be, but I’m not holding my breathe for the US to suddenly start ancting like a functional government (and there are probably other countries where a legal fix is less likely as well). Until then companies are free to offer private alternatives to users who find that to be a valuable service.
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