This list of requirements to save 3 percentage points is absurd. Approximately no one is going to use this. Which I'm sure is the point.
You know what else is usually close to 3%? Credit card fees.
US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
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Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
#442Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Apple argued from the very beginning that the 30% was its fee for running the App Store, marketing the apps, and storing and delivering the app bundles. The cost of operating an App Store and providing distribution is relatively negligible. Several Linux distros have app stores, and package management and distribution systems that are as good or superior than Apple’s. The annual fee that Apple charges developers al…
That's odd. I would have presumed that there are non-negligible costs involved with hosting and pushing binaries and updates of hundreds of apps per phone, times 1.5 billion active iPhones.
Apple is sitting on a $150 billion warchest of cash. I'm guessing that some of that comes from what they're charging above these non-negligible costs. They don't have to run a charity, but they're making fucktons of money between all their products so it's hard to see their 30% cut as anything other than extortion.
Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
#443Earlier quoted context omitted.
You clearly not been looking hard enough; Google, rightly, gets hated on way more than Apple. My experience tends to be that on HN apple can do no wrong.
Google gets mild-mannered, disappointed commenters sighing about how they've messed up search, the web, and has no product/customer support. When Apple comes up, people get on their soap boxes with expletives about how society and the world is fundamentally being ruined. The tone just isn't comparable at all.
I don't think so.
The main difference is that most people use one of the google products directly or indirectly, regardless of their attitude towards the company.
In comparison it is easier to not use Apple products if you don't like the company.
And thus people like you who own an Apple device feel targeted for their choice of using Apple and thus see it as more aggressive and powerful. It is as simple as that. You can find this pattern in every kind of domain, I see people replying with anger and/or passion to any criticism on their car, motorbike or bicycle brands. They naturally feel compelled to defend their brand of choice because they actually feel targeted as owner of it, because it feels like their own discernment is targeted indirectly.
Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
#444At this point, it's worth remembering that one of the points on which Epic lost was Apple's right to take a cut of transactions. I found this discussion of the Apple v. Epic ruling to be informative: > as discussed in the findings of facts, IAP is the method by which Apple collects its licensing fee from developers for the use of Apple’s intellectual property. Even in the absence of IAP, Apple could still charge a co…
But use of said IP is required because Apple forbids side-loading. Therefore Apple App store is a monopoly. So hopefully the court result will in the end help get the Apple App store shut down / opened up.
> Therefore Apple App store is a monopoly.
Not under US law according to the very court case being discussed.
Why are people still making this claim when the judge literally concluded otherwise and then a panel of appeals court judges confirmed her ruling?
Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
#445It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.
I've yet to see an HN hate thread about the trillion dollar company Google and its Play Store, with the same fees, stealing 30% from an even broader part of society.
The only difference is that you don't need to own an expensive Google device and pay $100 per year to develop for the Play Store, the 30% criticism applies as well though.
Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
#446Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We should discuss the points on their merits, not based on who's making them and how much money they have. Its not based on how much money they have. Its how they've managed to accumulate the money - by gouging devs.
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I look at it like this. If someone is doing it you have to do it too, you cant run a competitive business if your competitor is taking 30%. It is not something you chose to do but you have to.
The most important angle is what this grows into. Apple doesn't have to make hardware. They can simply stop doing that and live on rent alone. Hardware is hard work. It might just be that they have to stop doing it.
How much they put the squeeze on who and who makes how much money isn't even important. This is not beneficial to the industry or to society.
After the age of working your ass off while starving comes the age of contributing and thriving, this period ends with the age of entitlement. You do the work, I enjoy the benefits. we can only afford so much of that before our civilization turns into a hell hole. You will be working day and night to make ends meet while I have all the time and resources in the world to figure out how I'm going to take just a little bit more from you.
It's not about wealth, people should be able to EARN whatever they EARN.
It isn't even about mortality, we can go back to the age of working your ass off while starving, we know how to do that. The bigger issue is to have people in control who cant tie their own shoes. It sets us up for total failure. It takes one small incident to end humanity.
Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
#447Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We should discuss the points on their merits, not based on who's making them and how much money they have. Its not based on how much money they have. Its how they've managed to accumulate the money - by gouging devs.
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Apple wrote their kernel from zero?
Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
#448Earlier quoted context omitted.
Depends. If we’re talking about the details of the implementation, maybe. If it’s about the commission that still needs to be paid, then no. That’s directly mentioned in the original ruling by the district court, a commission is due regardless.
I think the real problem is unlimited access to accounting books for any business that has an iOS app. This will affect free apps too, since they now have the potential to offer purchases outside the app store. (Obviously, strategic partners and FAANG are exempt.)
This is not particularly unusual for royalty licensing scenarios. As a matter of fact Epic's Unreal Engine EULA has a similar clause:
You agree to keep accurate books and records related to your development, manufacture, Distribution, and sale of Royalty Products and related revenue. Epic may conduct reasonable audits of those books and records. Audits will be conducted during business hours on reasonable prior notice to you. Epic will bear the costs of audits unless the results show a shortfall in payments in excess of 5% during the period audited, in which case you will be responsible for the cost of the audit.
Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
#449Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We should discuss the points on their merits, not based on who's making them and how much money they have. Its not based on how much money they have. Its how they've managed to accumulate the money - by gouging devs.
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There's a point where the phone becomes similar to infrastructure, and allowing a single market actor to charge 30% tax on anyone using the roads, for any business conducted where someone took a road to get there, is ridiculous.
I'm not saying the App Store is infrastructure-like. But the market share of Apple is so large, and it's quasi-impossible to conduct consumer business without being required to have a native app... that it's starting to be infrastructure-like.
Can a viable B2C online business exist without being present via a native app? It seems untenable due to consumer expectations. Consumers also expect to be able to drive to coffeeshops, yet road providers don't charge 30% taxes on coffeeshop revenues.
Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
#450It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.
This guy also hates taxes.
So where can I vote out apple if I am unhappy with the 30%?
Not everything you pay money for is comparable to taxes.