I'm an app designer and was able to get my PWA to look very native. This is my way to avoid the app store fees which are absolutely ridiculous. Apps take up too much storage space anyways.
What did you miss in functionality vs a native app?
US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
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Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
#412Earlier quoted context omitted.
IANAL, but at face value, that seems like it would be, well, quite insane? To emphasize, I've seen plenty of insane stuff in the legal system, but if the argument is basically that Epic doesn't have standing because Apple won't let them be in a position where they could have standing , yet they generally offer that position (dev program membership) to the public at large, that seems like some sort of Catch-22-ish nig…
Why can’t developers bring a class action lawsuit or someone else just open a case? They did so in Cameron vs Apple and Google … and settled I believe !
They can. They have little interest to. Very miniscule reward (the only ones winning in a class action are the lawyers... I am due for a solid $20 from Google though!) for a huge risk.
I'm repeating the words of another commenter, but most app devs aren't competing against Apple but other devs. They aren't billion dollar businesses that stand to benefit by trying to get a lower rev share.
Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
#413Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is the right amount of profit margin? Would this apply to households too?
Whatever the market is willing to pay. We don’t know what that is, since there currently is no market.
The market obviously exists. Apple is the seller, numerous other businesses are buyers, and they are buying, hence the current amount is an amount "the market" is willing to pay.
Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
#414Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is the right amount of profit margin? Would this apply to households too?
I would say there isn't such a thing as "the right amount of profit margin" as much as there is "the right way to secure a profit margin". The more your margin is able to exist because competition isn't allowed the less right it is, be it 1% or 99% in absolute terms.
Is profit margin not partly a function of competition? A retail business is easily replicated, hence retail businesses have minuscule profit margin.
Insurance companies have lots of competition, also low profit margins.
Making a top of the line smartphone does not have a lot of competition, hence higher profit margins.
Medicine is patented and hence does not have a lot of competition, also higher profit margins.
Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
#415Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
#416Some perspective: we sell on Amazon as a 3rd party seller. Amazon takes about 9% of the sale price of our products as their commission (it’s actually 12%, but includes credit card processing). To which you might be inclined to reply, “Ah, but 9% is a reasonable commission, so that’s okay.” But we sell physical goods, which cost money to produce. It’s typical for our products to have 20-25% gross margins. So as a shar…
I know a few vendors who sell on Amazon. With advertising, they end up paying close to 60% of the selling price to Amazon.
How can Amazon pricing be so competitive if the cut is so large for third-party vendors?
Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
#417Earlier quoted context omitted.
Technically, third-party browsers are NOT allowed. The only browsers allowed are built using Apple's "open-source" WebKit.
Don't many apps use their own in app browser and not Safari? https://krausefx.com/blog/announcing-inappbrowsercom-see-wha... I always thought that a company should make an app those does something trivially, but also has its own in app browser as the true functionality.
Any single application on iOS(/iPadOS) that allows you to browse the Internet is in some way based on Safari. The in-app browsers are just using one of the webview UI elements based on Safari/WebKit instead of opening up Safari.
Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
#418Earlier quoted context omitted.
I also think apple's 30% cut is excessive, but I don't think this line of argument helps. We should discuss the points on their merits, not based on who's making them and how much money they have.
> We should discuss the points on their merits, not based on who's making them and how much money they have. Its not based on how much money they have. Its how they've managed to accumulate the money - by gouging devs.
This is a biased view that disregards basic available metrics. Apple is a hardware company. Developers are instrumental to its devices success and a point can be made that 30% might be too high of a fee. On the other hand many of those developers wouldn’t have a job in the first place if it wasn’t for Apple creating the App Store.
Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
#419It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.
I've yet to see an HN hate thread about the trillion dollar company Google and its Play Store, with the same fees, stealing 30% from an even broader part of society.
First visit? Welcome!
Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission
#420Some perspective: we sell on Amazon as a 3rd party seller. Amazon takes about 9% of the sale price of our products as their commission (it’s actually 12%, but includes credit card processing). To which you might be inclined to reply, “Ah, but 9% is a reasonable commission, so that’s okay.” But we sell physical goods, which cost money to produce. It’s typical for our products to have 20-25% gross margins. So as a shar…
There's plenty of digital goods with low margins that apple forces a 30% cut.
e.g. Spotify, Twitch, Patreon etc. Most of the funds go to the creator. Completely breaks the model when Apple forces a 30% cut of gross.
That being said, i'd also argue Apple's app store is a complete monopoly on iPhones. Iphones and app stores are such an essential part of life, they deserve to be neutral a la internet neutrality. Not sure how we all become pro internet neutrality but somehow suffer Apple's 30% tax.