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US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

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Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#281

Post by throwaway290 »

threeseed wrote: post #137
GeekyBear wrote: post #114

At this point, it's worth remembering that one of the points on which Epic lost was Apple's right to take a cut of transactions. I found this discussion of the Apple v. Epic ruling to be informative: > as discussed in the findings of facts, IAP is the method by which Apple collects its licensing fee from developers for the use of Apple’s intellectual property. Even in the absence of IAP, Apple could still charge a co…

> Epic should have sued over the size of Apple's cut, not it's right to take a cut Epic charges 5% for Unreal Engine. Apple offers developers significantly more than just a games engine.

The most famous Epic game is (or was until this legal battle) played on iOS more than on any other platform, that's in Epic's own complaint. So who built iOS? Why so many people use it? How come they are willing to pay for games instead of pirating them?

Looks like whoever developed iOS and all the hardware it runs on and the ecosystem that makes it appealing for rich users is actually providing Epic a ton of value and profit, but Epic doesn't want to pay for it. I wonder who's greedy here

(Also it's insane how we just accept that Epic with its massive profits and margins is the one who wants to get a discount from Apple, if anything they should be charged double what small business single person devs pay.)

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#282

Post by xyst »

Once side loading finalizes (couple of years?) the predatory 27-30% fee will come down really fast. F Apple for this monopoly bs. From the anti-repair shenanigans to their locked down ecosystem. It’s all designed to pump as much money from the consumer AND developers inside the wall.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#283

Post by bmitc »

turquoisevar wrote: post #247
lolinder wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was always what the outcome was going to look like. People have been talking ever since the ruling as though dodging Apple as a payment processor was going to magically exempt developers from the full 30% fee, but that was never going to happen and it was never the intention of the ruling. Apple argued from the very beginning that the 30% was its fee for running the App Store, marketing the apps, and storing and…

Yeah, the amazement amongst people here on HN amazes me. The district court was crystal clear about this in their judgment, which at the time caused quite some consternation. The appellate court then affirmed the same and even clarified more clearly that it’s completely fine because it primarily is the mechanic Apple gets payment for the use of their IP and, secondly, their services that encompass more than just paym…

> The appellate court then affirmed the same and even clarified more clearly that it’s completely fine because it primarily is the mechanic Apple gets payment for the use of their IP and, secondly, their services that encompass more than just payment processing.

This completely ignores Apple's market power though. Because what stops Apple from making this 40% or 50%? 30% is a fair price? Look what they did to Spotify with Apple Music. They absolutely abused their ownership of the platform to stifle a competitor.

Also, things change when you effectively become a utility. Apple shouldn't be able to hide behind their "aww shucks, we need the 30% to keep the lights on" routine.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#284

Post by alephnan »

bradgessler wrote: post #54

Am I getting this right? Say I use Stripe as my payment processor. Stripe takes 2.9% + $0.30, then Apple takes 27% so I'm at 29.9% + $0.30 being taken out of however much I charge for my app? For a $10 app, $0.30 is 3% putting the fee at 32.9%. For the privilege of paying 2.9% more, my users get to see a scary privacy message and when I bill the customer a year later for a subscription, there's a 20-30% chance that t…

If you don't like making $6.71, the alternative is to make $0 by not selling it on the Apple app store.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#285

Post by janalsncm »

toasterlovin wrote: post #258

Some perspective: we sell on Amazon as a 3rd party seller. Amazon takes about 9% of the sale price of our products as their commission (it’s actually 12%, but includes credit card processing). To which you might be inclined to reply, “Ah, but 9% is a reasonable commission, so that’s okay.” But we sell physical goods, which cost money to produce. It’s typical for our products to have 20-25% gross margins. So as a shar…

That’s just the commission on the sale itself. It doesn’t count FBA or advertising fees which in practical terms are often necessary. After all is said and done, Amazon is usually taking much more than 9%.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#288

Post by maximus-decimus »

epistasis wrote: post #266
bradgessler wrote: post #54

Am I getting this right? Say I use Stripe as my payment processor. Stripe takes 2.9% + $0.30, then Apple takes 27% so I'm at 29.9% + $0.30 being taken out of however much I charge for my app? For a $10 app, $0.30 is 3% putting the fee at 32.9%. For the privilege of paying 2.9% more, my users get to see a scary privacy message and when I bill the customer a year later for a subscription, there's a 20-30% chance that t…

Just wait until you see what you have to do to get your food product onto super market shelves... And grocery stores are not even considered a monopoly! Edit: which is not say that there should be an "is" vs. "ought" conflation. Just that it's unlikely that this situation is going to be changed through courts. Other routes: legislation and regulation to establish a new social norm, or as Jacquesm has been advocating…

But imagine buying your food directly from a farm and having to pay a 27% cut to the grocery store anyway.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#289

Post by malshe »

toasterlovin wrote: post #258

Some perspective: we sell on Amazon as a 3rd party seller. Amazon takes about 9% of the sale price of our products as their commission (it’s actually 12%, but includes credit card processing). To which you might be inclined to reply, “Ah, but 9% is a reasonable commission, so that’s okay.” But we sell physical goods, which cost money to produce. It’s typical for our products to have 20-25% gross margins. So as a shar…

I know a few vendors who sell on Amazon. With advertising, they end up paying close to 60% of the selling price to Amazon.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#290

Post by winter_blue »

lolinder wrote: post #154
bradgessler wrote: post #54

Am I getting this right? Say I use Stripe as my payment processor. Stripe takes 2.9% + $0.30, then Apple takes 27% so I'm at 29.9% + $0.30 being taken out of however much I charge for my app? For a $10 app, $0.30 is 3% putting the fee at 32.9%. For the privilege of paying 2.9% more, my users get to see a scary privacy message and when I bill the customer a year later for a subscription, there's a 20-30% chance that t…

This was always what the outcome was going to look like. People have been talking ever since the ruling as though dodging Apple as a payment processor was going to magically exempt developers from the full 30% fee, but that was never going to happen and it was never the intention of the ruling. Apple argued from the very beginning that the 30% was its fee for running the App Store, marketing the apps, and storing and…

> Apple argued from the very beginning that the 30% was its fee for running the App Store, marketing the apps, and storing and delivering the app bundles.

The cost of operating an App Store and providing distribution is relatively negligible. Several Linux distros have app stores, and package management and distribution systems that are as good or superior than Apple’s.

The annual fee that Apple charges developers alone should more than cover the cost of App Store. It is not something that costs tens of billions of dollars.

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