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US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

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Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#251

Post by lapcat »

stevage wrote: post #238
lapcat wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many problems with this take. Here are a few: 1) Many App Store apps are completely free, paying nothing to Apple except the $99 per year fee, so they have no stake in this issue. 2) My understanding is that more than 90% of developers in the App Store make less than $1 million per year and thus are covered by the Small Business Program, which charges only 15% rather than 30%. Revenue in the App Store is…

I don't think organising a strike online is that hard. Remember the protests against FOSTA etc? Or against Reddit management? The main bit is getting people to care.

> Or against Reddit management?

Reddit management won in the end.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#252

Post by scarface_74 »

callalex wrote: post #223
scarface_74 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all the developers I assume you care about left the App Store, Apple wouldn’t care. The apps that make the majority of the money on the App Store are slimy pay to win games where “whales” buy coins and loot boxes. The other popular apps are front end for services where Apple doesn’t collect a dime like Facebook, Instagram, Netflix, etc.

If iPhones didn’t run Instagram and TikTok they would sell very few phones.

What do you think is more likely? People wouldn’t buy iPhones or people would find an alternative to Instagram?

Especially in the US, how likely is it do you really think iPhone users are going to sully themselves and buy Android phones when many people think that “only poor people buy Android phones”. (Note sarcasm)

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#253

Post by makeitdouble »

lolinder wrote: post #117
llm_nerd wrote: post #74

This feels like a straw that breaks the camel's back kind of moment. Apple has gotten away with a tremendous amount (being an astonishingly greedy company. All companies are de facto greedy, but Apple is just next level in its egregious entitlement), but there is simply zero way this stands. And FWIW, I'm an Apple fan and find Tim S a completely unsympathetic character. But seeing the hilariously absurd lengths that…

The details of the process of getting approval for links may be out of line, but the idea that simply using a different payment processor would remove the entirety of the 30% commission was always a pipe dream. Apple has always been adamant that the fee is for the service of using the App Store, not the payment processor, and that you owe them for sales made regardless of whether they're able to take the money direct…

＞ the idea that simply using a different payment processor would remove the entirety of the 30% commission was always a pipe dream

The idea wasn't to use third party processors as an argument to evade the fee, it was the other way round. Front and center Epic wanted to get rid of or strongly lower the fee, and as a consequence developers would probably have had to use other processors.

The judge shut this down by legitimizing Apple's 30%, which as a consequent allows Apple to collect that money however the dev processes their customers, third party PSP or not.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#254

Post by brandon272 »

jongjong wrote: post #191

I always hated native apps and found them to be very high friction, both as a user and as a developer. I have no idea what's wrong with people. Why are people so keen to install untrusted, intrusive software onto their devices when they can access them in the safety of their browser without downloading anything. When I was younger, people were very careful about what software they installed on their machines, you'd h…

App makers (and often users!) want dedicated buttons for services or apps they use on their phone home screens or menus. Apple has put considerable effort into having a standardized workflow that most users understand when it comes to installing a mobile app on their device: you access it through their App Store.

I would love for Progressive Web Apps to be normalized, and PWAs can do a lot, and you can also get a button for a PWA on your home screen, but the process to do so is odd/cumbersome, requires explanation for inexperienced users, which is not something that most companies that want a well-positioned mobile app are willing to tolerate.

And while PWAs on iOS can access some sensors, the API support is limited[0] and in some cases not supported at all. Not being able to capture links to properly direct users into installed PWAs, not being able to provide install prompts, background sync, etc. are considered serious limitations to people who are used to those luxuries available to actual iOS apps.

[0] https://firt.dev/notes/pwa-ios/

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#255

Post by CubsFan1060 »

stevage wrote: post #238
lapcat wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many problems with this take. Here are a few: 1) Many App Store apps are completely free, paying nothing to Apple except the $99 per year fee, so they have no stake in this issue. 2) My understanding is that more than 90% of developers in the App Store make less than $1 million per year and thus are covered by the Small Business Program, which charges only 15% rather than 30%. Revenue in the App Store is…

I don't think organising a strike online is that hard. Remember the protests against FOSTA etc? Or against Reddit management? The main bit is getting people to care.

Right. RIP Reddit. Can you remind me what that accomplished?

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#256

Post by [deleted] »

zamadatix wrote: post #206
lotsofpulp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the right amount of profit margin? Would this apply to households too?

I would say there isn't such a thing as "the right amount of profit margin" as much as there is "the right way to secure a profit margin". The more your margin is able to exist because competition isn't allowed the less right it is, be it 1% or 99% in absolute terms.

[deleted]

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#257

Post by babypuncher »

gepardi wrote: post #248
llm_nerd wrote: post #74

This feels like a straw that breaks the camel's back kind of moment. Apple has gotten away with a tremendous amount (being an astonishingly greedy company. All companies are de facto greedy, but Apple is just next level in its egregious entitlement), but there is simply zero way this stands. And FWIW, I'm an Apple fan and find Tim S a completely unsympathetic character. But seeing the hilariously absurd lengths that…

Is it enough to make you stop using Apple products? I’m considering it.

It's not like Google or Samsung are even remotely better.

Given the scary things Samsung gets away with in South Korea, I almost want to say they're worse than Apple.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#258

Post by toasterlovin »

Some perspective: we sell on Amazon as a 3rd party seller. Amazon takes about 9% of the sale price of our products as their commission (it’s actually 12%, but includes credit card processing). To which you might be inclined to reply, “Ah, but 9% is a reasonable commission, so that’s okay.” But we sell physical goods, which cost money to produce. It’s typical for our products to have 20-25% gross margins. So as a share of what’s left after accounting for the cost to produce and transport our products, Amazon’s commission is similar to Apple’s App Store fee.

Just something to think about if you want to argue that a 30% commission is too much for facilitating a high trust purchasing environment with customers who are ready to spend money.

Oh yeah, and you’ll never guess what Amazon’s policy is about steering customers off of Amazon.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#259

Post by ocdtrekkie »

SllX wrote: post #146
radley wrote: post #39

There's a strong chance this will be shot down as "bad-faith" compliance. Rumor is Epic will quickly contest it [Update: confirmed] https://twitter.com/timsweeneyepic/status/174740814726057173...

I’m not sure Epic actually has standing anymore. They did back when they were part of the developer program. If they can make their case that it is bad faith compliance as part of their original case before the Court goes “c’ya, we’re done here”, they might have something, but Apple revoked Epic’s membership for violating their terms in the developer program worldwide and at the conclusion of this lawsuit, Apple has…

I agree. As much as I disagree with the ruling the courts made, they definitely decided Apple was allowed to ban Epic for their store permanently, and so Apple's fees no longer are Epic's problem, legally speaking. Someone else would have to be willing to invest the funding on the legal battle, with pockets as deep as Tim's and the same willingness to go up against a Goliath... one that already won against Epic, and won't be bought out a special deal. Tim Sweeney was uniquely concerned with getting fair treatment for everyone here and that is shockingly rare in billionaire CEOs.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#260

Post by hyuuu »

bradgessler wrote: post #54

Am I getting this right? Say I use Stripe as my payment processor. Stripe takes 2.9% + $0.30, then Apple takes 27% so I'm at 29.9% + $0.30 being taken out of however much I charge for my app? For a $10 app, $0.30 is 3% putting the fee at 32.9%. For the privilege of paying 2.9% more, my users get to see a scary privacy message and when I bill the customer a year later for a subscription, there's a 20-30% chance that t…

apple just has really good marketing and massive support from its fanboys, compared to the olden days of Microsoft monopolistic behavior, Microsoft is less shiny with less loyal foot soldiers.
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