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US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

macrumors.com

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Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#221

Post by lxgr »

hyperbovine wrote: post #172
llm_nerd wrote: post #74

This feels like a straw that breaks the camel's back kind of moment. Apple has gotten away with a tremendous amount (being an astonishingly greedy company. All companies are de facto greedy, but Apple is just next level in its egregious entitlement), but there is simply zero way this stands. And FWIW, I'm an Apple fan and find Tim S a completely unsympathetic character. But seeing the hilariously absurd lengths that…

> But seeing the hilariously absurd lengths that people will go to justify Apple's outrageous greed grows old. Define greed. Seriously, I'm asking for an objective definition, not just ipse dixit. They're charging what the market will bear for a _vastly_ better product (iOS vs. Android).

Assuming iOS is really vastly better than Android: Isn’t it curious that Google is charging exactly the same rate then?

It’s just not an apples to oranges comparison: One vendor is forcing use of their distribution services; the other just strongly nudges their customers to stay within their walled garden and not enable sideloading.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#223

Post by callalex »

scarface_74 wrote: post #192
lolinder wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was always what the outcome was going to look like. People have been talking ever since the ruling as though dodging Apple as a payment processor was going to magically exempt developers from the full 30% fee, but that was never going to happen and it was never the intention of the ruling. Apple argued from the very beginning that the 30% was its fee for running the App Store, marketing the apps, and storing and…

If all the developers I assume you care about left the App Store, Apple wouldn’t care. The apps that make the majority of the money on the App Store are slimy pay to win games where “whales” buy coins and loot boxes. The other popular apps are front end for services where Apple doesn’t collect a dime like Facebook, Instagram, Netflix, etc.

If iPhones didn’t run Instagram and TikTok they would sell very few phones.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#224

Post by chubs »

One interesting thing to me is that apple has now put a price tag on their payments processing: 3% (being the discount of this 27% vs the normal 30%). Their payments are pretty convenient, i'm surprised they don't consider it worth eg 4-5%.

So they're basically saying that their SDKs (+ distribution) are worth 27% of sales.

I wonder if one could make the argument in court that if you don't use their SDK, eg you use react native or flutter, you shouldn't pay 27%. Yes, i know those frameworks still use apple's SDKs, but they commoditise them such that you might make the argument these SDKs aren't worth any more than any other sdk such as android.

(I'm skipping distribution in my argument too, for simplicity's sake)

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#225

Post by lxgr »

dmitrygr wrote: post #178
llm_nerd wrote: post #74

This feels like a straw that breaks the camel's back kind of moment. Apple has gotten away with a tremendous amount (being an astonishingly greedy company. All companies are de facto greedy, but Apple is just next level in its egregious entitlement), but there is simply zero way this stands. And FWIW, I'm an Apple fan and find Tim S a completely unsympathetic character. But seeing the hilariously absurd lengths that…

Does a gas station “get away” with charging for gas? They are selling a service and can charge anything they want for it. You are free not to use it, as is anyone else.

That would be true in a completely unregulated market only.

In many countries, antitrust regulators set some limits to how far companies can take their “take it or leave it” approach and in many cases require companies to provide a certain service, sometimes even at a certain rate.

Forcing companies to unbundle products or services is another common measure.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#226

Post by newsclues »

llm_nerd wrote: post #74

This feels like a straw that breaks the camel's back kind of moment. Apple has gotten away with a tremendous amount (being an astonishingly greedy company. All companies are de facto greedy, but Apple is just next level in its egregious entitlement), but there is simply zero way this stands. And FWIW, I'm an Apple fan and find Tim S a completely unsympathetic character. But seeing the hilariously absurd lengths that…

Was the situation for phone software developers better before the iPhone?

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#227

Post by danpalmer »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #87
lxgr wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been mandated for dating apps in the Netherlands, to my knowledge. It being allowed for all apps in the US is arguably still news.

> mandated for dating apps in the Netherlands In this scenario, is there something specific that we should know/understand about (a) dating apps or (b) the Netherlands?

IIRC it was based on a court case from a group of dating app providers there. Dating apps have somewhat tricky unit economics, so I wouldn't be surprised if they made a case for their businesses specifically, and perhaps the court's finding was therefore not that widely applicable.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#228

Post by lxgr »

3jjj3jjj3 wrote: post #179
llm_nerd wrote: post #74

This feels like a straw that breaks the camel's back kind of moment. Apple has gotten away with a tremendous amount (being an astonishingly greedy company. All companies are de facto greedy, but Apple is just next level in its egregious entitlement), but there is simply zero way this stands. And FWIW, I'm an Apple fan and find Tim S a completely unsympathetic character. But seeing the hilariously absurd lengths that…

"being an astonishingly greedy company" and then writing "I'm an Apple fan" ... sound like a Stockholm syndrome or a cognitive dissonance

Why? I can a company’s stock, use their products, and still strongly disagree with some of their business practices.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#229

Post by sundvor »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #212
sundvor wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PC platform: Steam doesn't care if (case in point) Eagle Dynamics allows direct downloads from their website of DCS World - in fact they embrace it, by offering account linking APIs. So on PCs, unlike on iOS, users can buy their content as they choose. And it's not as if Microsoft forces everyone to use their (exceptionally crappy) store either.

Indeed there are many free-to-play games on Steam with micro-transactions that are not required to give Valve a cut.

Just to be clear, in the DCS World example you do have to make a choice between using Steam for the game download and purchases, or to use the Eagle Dynamics website/downloader directly. External modules purchases do not import to the Steam account, IIRC.

My point was probably that Steam doesn't force users to only use their platform.

To further illustrate the non lock in culture, you can do a transfer of content from Steam into your Eagle Dynamics account if you want to change the account type.

I'm guessing that seasoned DCS players like the direct account method (more frequent sales, for one), whereas beginners are more likely to discover it through Steam.

(iRacing also has a similar relationship with Steam, although in that case Steam only managed the subscription - not the car/track purchases.)

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