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Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

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Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am frequently reminded of George Carlin's bit about "soft language" and how it obscures facts of life that we're uncomfortable about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h67k9eEw9AY His criticism of soft language about aging and death starts around the 5 minute mark

Dying is a fact now, but will it still be 50/100/1000 years from now on with current exponential technological advancements? Sooner or later it will be solved. Dying sucks on all accounts and there’s nothing positive to say about it, so it makes sense to lighten up that language. I definitely don’t want to be reminded all the time of my mortality, which is especially frustrating as it’s a problem that will be solved…

The day we solve death is the day we doom ourselves.

Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#272
post #264
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am far younger than you, but ditto on all counts. The pandemic crushed everything that I studied and worked for. And it taught me as someone in my early 20s that even though I spent my entire life with my nose to the grindstone, everything could be instantly stripped away by world governments, and friends and coworkers and family members could also suddenly turn on each other like rabid dogs. Honestly, at least be…

> everything could be instantly stripped away by world governments Your comment suggests that the driver of your (and your peers) anhedonia is some lingering threat of some future lockdown by governments? Is that what you're saying? And, is that actually the case or is it just the easiest cause to put your finger on? I understand that period was really rough for so many reasons. But a lot of the angst I see among fri…

It's not angst, it's real.

Though I'm young, my work is international. I was separated from my girlfriend, apartment, coworkers, and entire livelihood in a different nation, at a position one could say I spent much of my life up to that point studying and working toward. My colleagues were separated from their families and children. Some lost their homes because they were let go from their jobs as a result. Some older friends of mine divorced because of this. Some lost their businesses that they spent their lives building. One of them committed suicide. This was a guy in his late 50s with two children and a wife, who had been forcibly separated from each other on opposite sides of the world for over a year.

Short of wars, there has never been such a brutal and absolute upheaval of population movements for civilian populations.

There are a lot of people my age who went through this type of experience, and that is one reason why I think the original poster sees more people with less joie de vivre. I am also saying it is lucky for people who just had lockdowns at home or had their lives confined to one locale or even country, or who at least had some years of "living" their lives before this happened. What I mean by that is people who at least had their 20s and maybe even 30s to build a career, life, and family, on top of their years of studying and schooling. But for those of us just getting our careers started, and for people who had international careers and lives split between countries, there were several years of nightmares along with the knowledge now that, at any moment, all this could instantly happen again.

Sure, anyone could get hit by a bus tomorrow. But it was people and governments turning on one another like wolves that was a sharp mask-off moment, especially for those of us in our formative years. That is a different type of crushing, and utterly stultifying, effect. Because it is not a random accident, but rather a cold and calculating opposition by others. All I know is that I spent my life sacrificing short-term rewards as I worked toward long-term payoffs, and as soon as I started to see results, everything went up in flames. Everything. If motivation is squelched for major life projects and milestones, I think it is clear how motivation is also squelched for personal projects or side projects. If you're older, and if your life wasn't split or shattered across the globe, be thankful is all I can say.

But for me and others in my age bracket and positions, there was this natural, sharp turn toward instant gratification, which I wholly support and understand. This is of course anecdotal, and I am not implying that it is a universal sentiment, but just offering an example to answer the original question/statement of people "working on nothing". It is because we have nothing to "work toward".

Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#273

Not exactly, but close. When the pandemic hit, my big outlet at the time was rock climbing, mostly indoors. That went from "3 days a week" to "zero" immediately, and when things opened back up it just never recovered for me. I started spending more time and mental energy on software, even though that's my day job. I've been at this for nearly 19 years and I really care about doing it well. The problem is that seeming…

We're in a different age bracket, but this post resonated with me. I suppose you can check my comment history in this thread to see my side of it if you are curious, but the end result is somewhat similar, though you seem to be in a much better mental state than people such as myself and those around me.

Thanks for sharing, cheers, and [have fun at the range?].

Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#274

I found in my mid thirties that my perspective on what was important and desirable shifted significantly. Which led me to become disengaged from my desire to build side projects and learn new programming languages. It was a time were ecclesiastes from the Bible resonated a lot. After a while I just found out that I wasn’t interested in nothing but I had to rediscover what was important to me and what I valued spendin…

> It was a time were ecclesiastes from the Bible resonated a lot. As an open minded agnostic who has not read the Bible or the Tanakh I am curious, what about the Ecclesiastes in particular resonated with you?

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; a time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; a time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; a time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace."

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 KJV

Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#275

I found in my mid thirties that my perspective on what was important and desirable shifted significantly. Which led me to become disengaged from my desire to build side projects and learn new programming languages. It was a time were ecclesiastes from the Bible resonated a lot. After a while I just found out that I wasn’t interested in nothing but I had to rediscover what was important to me and what I valued spendin…

> It was a time were ecclesiastes from the Bible resonated a lot. As an open minded agnostic who has not read the Bible or the Tanakh I am curious, what about the Ecclesiastes in particular resonated with you?

I’m a Christian if that makes a difference. The book spoke to me about the idea of believing we will find meaning, purpose, and fulfillment in things if we just try hard enough. If I have the right idea and execute on it I will final be happy, if I reach a certain level in my company I will I’ll finally feel that feeling of the ultimate win, if I have enough friends, or leisure or whatever. None of its going to bring that sense of peace and fullness we are seeking. It must be found outside of our striving. As a Christian I find that feeling in God and being present with family.

Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#276

I found in my mid thirties that my perspective on what was important and desirable shifted significantly. Which led me to become disengaged from my desire to build side projects and learn new programming languages. It was a time were ecclesiastes from the Bible resonated a lot. After a while I just found out that I wasn’t interested in nothing but I had to rediscover what was important to me and what I valued spendin…

Do you worry that you won’t be able to keep up with the industry and get obsoleted and forced out of work or a certain comp level before you want?

I worry about that more than I’d like to admit. However I have far peace and fulfillment than I’ve ever had so the trade off is good. I think Scott Galloway said nothing is ever as bad or as good as you think it will be.

When I was 20 I worked at Costco while going through college and one of my coworkers was previously a software engineer at sun microsystem. He ended leaving the industry because his skills were up to date enough but he was happy in life and had paid for most everything he needed already. It would be unpleasant to go through but make wise financial decisions and ride it out as long you can. Also I maximize my 8 hours a day and do my best to learn on the job.

Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was a time were ecclesiastes from the Bible resonated a lot. As an open minded agnostic who has not read the Bible or the Tanakh I am curious, what about the Ecclesiastes in particular resonated with you?

Not the commenter but it's just a interesting premise. It's an old King who's experienced every earthly pleasure in existence (food, wine, servants, women, etc.) who is looking back on his life and writing a letter to his son. He is basically despairing that all of these things were in vain and that they don't mean anything now that he is old, etc. It doesn't really have a clean payoff or moral either, the premise is…

Marcus Aurelius' "Meditations" came to mind from your description, very interesting.

Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#278
post #272
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everything could be instantly stripped away by world governments Your comment suggests that the driver of your (and your peers) anhedonia is some lingering threat of some future lockdown by governments? Is that what you're saying? And, is that actually the case or is it just the easiest cause to put your finger on? I understand that period was really rough for so many reasons. But a lot of the angst I see among fri…

It's not angst, it's real. Though I'm young, my work is international. I was separated from my girlfriend, apartment, coworkers, and entire livelihood in a different nation, at a position one could say I spent much of my life up to that point studying and working toward. My colleagues were separated from their families and children. Some lost their homes because they were let go from their jobs as a result. Some olde…

This pairs pretty well with my experience. (I'm a little older, late 20s/early 30s)

I grew up in a upper-middle class income family, I was first entering high school when my parents were hit hard by the housing crisis in 2008. (Facebook also just started dominating during this time) Eventually the economy "recovered" just long enough for everyone to start telling us that we should sacrifice our 20s while we had the energy so we can enjoy our 30s. (buy a house, have a steady career, start traveling, ect)

Yeah, that advice really turn out to reflect what actually happened.

Travel? - Can't because of quarantine. Quarantine ended, to bad your relationship ended during quarantine, so you don't have anyone to travel with. Lucky enough to have been working remotely? To bad housing prices soared. Decided to invest? Hope you weren't one of the millions screwed over by any of those several historic finical fraud cases that seem to occur multiple times every year. Parents getting to old to work and lost their retirement in 2008? Uhhh... hope they/you win the lottery?

Anyway, all this is really just a long way of agreeing with OP.

Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am frequently reminded of George Carlin's bit about "soft language" and how it obscures facts of life that we're uncomfortable about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h67k9eEw9AY His criticism of soft language about aging and death starts around the 5 minute mark

Dying is a fact now, but will it still be 50/100/1000 years from now on with current exponential technological advancements? Sooner or later it will be solved. Dying sucks on all accounts and there’s nothing positive to say about it, so it makes sense to lighten up that language. I definitely don’t want to be reminded all the time of my mortality, which is especially frustrating as it’s a problem that will be solved…

Deathphobia is a real thing that pervades many cultures during the last century, largely driven by disposable income and technology, individualism, rejection of respect for ancestors, and marketing. It leads to a “wretched anxiety” that can for some people become an inescapable pathology. One could argue it is not death itself but the path to death and how we as a society acknowlege it that is problematic. If it is causing depression perhaps consider getting help.

Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#280
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah. Couldn't care less about that. I mean it several levels back from that, being a subject in my own story rather than merely an object in anyone else's, being someone who has an identity and makes decisions and engages other people as a person in my own right. I wasn't anybody even to myself, which is why I couldn't ever do anything. I could be used by people to do their things, but I wasn't an agent even in m…

This resonates a lot with me, and I think you expressed what has been running through my mind lately. Sometimes, I feel like I lack agency; lile I'm not a primary character in my own life's story. It's so easy to sit back, follow the flow, and let the will of others dictate what I work with and spend my time on. Working on changing that. But now I'm at an impasse, as it's difficult to know which of my interests and h…

Thanks for saying so. It feels like a lonely road a lot of the time.

I'm taking some time away from work to try to pay attention to this. The urge to enter a cloister and stay forever has started cropping up, which may mean I'm taking it too far, but at least tells me I might finally be getting out of my fixed ways of thinking.

Peace to your journey.

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