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US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

macrumors.com

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Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#131

Post by kemayo »

onethought wrote: post #124
kemayo wrote: post #119

This is the same strategy that Apple pursued for dating apps in the Netherlands, after a court there forced them to allow third-party payments a year or two ago. Their argument is that the 15/30% is a general fee for use of their infrastructure (App Store, etc), and so they'll subtract the approximate cost of payment processing if you're handling it yourself but you'll still have to pay the rest of the fee to them. A…

What’s the egregious bit? Because Apple were so successful with their product they should have a cap on how much they capitalise? Do you get upset at business class in airlines? Or cinema food being so expensive? Isn’t this the point of capitalism?

Leaving aside the potential for a critique of capitalism as a whole... it depends on what you compare it to, right? (Or, I don't get upset at the existence of business class, but I do get upset at excessive nickel-and-diming with fees in coach.)

I'd tend to think of the Mac as the most-direct comparison point, where there's the App Store but also where a developer who wants to handle everything themselves can.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#132

Post by threeseed »

judge2020 wrote: post #75
radley wrote: post #39

There's a strong chance this will be shot down as "bad-faith" compliance. Rumor is Epic will quickly contest it [Update: confirmed] https://twitter.com/timsweeneyepic/status/174740814726057173...

It'll probably need to be another lawsuit since it's in the developer agreement. Via user lolinder ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39020745 ): > Apple is already pretty clear in its developer agreement [0] that the 30% commission is for "its services as Your agent and/or commissionaire" (Schedule 2 3.4), not for its services as a payment processor. They are contractually allowed to take the 30% fee out of paym…

Will be interesting to see Epic file a lawsuit questioning the legality of per-sale licensing models for SDKs.

You know given they charge exactly the same way for Unreal Engine.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#133

Post by MobileVet »

judge2020 wrote: post #84
MobileVet wrote: post #56

I am curious if any businesses operating with the ‘pay Apple their cut’ on outside sales actually do? Does Apple have the manpower to chase every developer for that fee? Do they really expect to collect it or is it more of a threat? Any HN people with first hand knowledge of a business paying that fee?

Apple likely has a pretty good idea of how many downloads you have, and if users enable "Share with Apple Developers" in settings -> privacy -> analytics, their App Store Connect database definitely has usage and open analytics. Mobile app games likely won't be able to claim "we only made $30k this month on iOS" if they have >1M downloads a month or 100k app opens a day, for example.

Good point. Forgot that they have all the data…

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#135

Post by rstupek »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #111
rstupek wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can probably include development of SDKs and documentation as well.

> You can probably include development of SDKs and documentation as well. With limited exceptions, platform vendors (Microsoft, IBM, Sun/Oracle, etc) are generally not in the business of paywalling their development documentation, tools, and SDKs, otherwise it makes their platform far less attactive to third-party developers that they absolutely need in order to. ...and ever and never-mind that Apple's documentation…

They're not now generally paywalled and free but it didn't always used to be that way.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#136

Post by earthling8118 »

onethought wrote: post #130
bradgessler wrote: post #54

Am I getting this right? Say I use Stripe as my payment processor. Stripe takes 2.9% + $0.30, then Apple takes 27% so I'm at 29.9% + $0.30 being taken out of however much I charge for my app? For a $10 app, $0.30 is 3% putting the fee at 32.9%. For the privilege of paying 2.9% more, my users get to see a scary privacy message and when I bill the customer a year later for a subscription, there's a 20-30% chance that t…

How can the “second most popular phone” have a monopoly?

You don't have to be the most popular to be a monopoly. Not even close.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#137

Post by threeseed »

GeekyBear wrote: post #114

At this point, it's worth remembering that one of the points on which Epic lost was Apple's right to take a cut of transactions. I found this discussion of the Apple v. Epic ruling to be informative: > as discussed in the findings of facts, IAP is the method by which Apple collects its licensing fee from developers for the use of Apple’s intellectual property. Even in the absence of IAP, Apple could still charge a co…

> Epic should have sued over the size of Apple's cut, not it's right to take a cut

Epic charges 5% for Unreal Engine.

Apple offers developers significantly more than just a games engine.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#138

Post by Levitz »

jamil7 wrote: post #120
jacquesm wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh absolutely it is. But all app store developers are complicit in enabling that monopoly. What should happen is that all app store developers withdraw their apps until Apple sees the light. But that won't happen because every app store developer will be pitted against their competition in a race to the bottom who will accept the highest fees that Apple is going to impose and sooner or later you'll be back at that 30…

This is a weird take. It’s similar to saying workers pre unionisation and labour movements were complicit in enabling poor working conditions.

Unknowingly so maybe, but they must have been, no?

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#140

Post by threeseed »

kemayo wrote: post #119

This is the same strategy that Apple pursued for dating apps in the Netherlands, after a court there forced them to allow third-party payments a year or two ago. Their argument is that the 15/30% is a general fee for use of their infrastructure (App Store, etc), and so they'll subtract the approximate cost of payment processing if you're handling it yourself but you'll still have to pay the rest of the fee to them. A…

> Their argument is that the 15/30% is a general fee for use of their infrastructure

No Apple's argument is that this is a fee for everything e.g. SDKs.

As well as being a highly lucrative distribution channel.

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