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On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney

catandgirl.com

671–680 of 957 posts

Re: On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney

#671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> How many books can you write per second? On my laptop, using modern tools backed by AI? ... many. >> How how many books per second can you read to influence and change your personal style? Thanks now to AI, hundreds. I can plug the output of the book-reading AI into the input of the tool I use to write my books and thereby update my personal style to incorporate all the latest trends. Blame the idiots who are payi…

So, zero. You yourself: zero. You completely ignored the premise of the question.

You should read the response more carefully. Generative models are just tools. If I use one to write a story it’s no less a story that I wrote than if I’d chiseled it into a Persian mountainside.

Re: On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney

#672

I wonder what effects AI ripping off today's artists will have on the next generation. They will grow up with AI "art" generators. Will they be concerned enough about AI-ripping them off that the don't put out novel, "human-made" works of art? Will they put down the AI tools long enough to learn "manual" forms of art?

Yeah, it's over. Why would a kid want to spend thousands of hours practicing with pencil and paper, when they can get a much more impressive result by typing a couple of words on a web site?

I can buy a cutting board on Amazon for $20 or I can spend thousands on woodworking equipment to make my own. I choose to do the latter because it's fun.

Re: On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney

#673
post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are there any humans that can produce artwork without ingesting inspiration from other art? This sounds so detached from human experience that I am tempted to ask if you are a human or just a disembodied spirit that haunts the internet. When the first neanderthal drew a deer on the walls of a cave, where did they get inspiration? When a little child draws a tree for the first time, where do they draw inspiration? D…

Yeah, but that’s not really your sole source of inspiration. My son has been ‘inspired’ by the art of all other kids in his kindergarden. Certainly by the time he gets to the age where he does it professionally he’s been inspired by an uncountable number of people.

What % is his independent inspiration? 30%? 90%? There are certainly people for whom it was 90%. For most we don’t know.

We do know one thing for sure - that for AI it’s 0%

Re: On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney

#674
post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I care more about peoples lives being better. I didnt introduce this line of questioning. Learn to reread and maybe tjink a little more deeply about the good outcomes of automating intelligence. You just have to be a complete moron to think more intelligence in the world is a bad thing.

Ah, insults in reply to polite conversation? Time for me to bow out of this trainwreck of an "argument".

You were never arguing in good faith anyway, good news is that progress will steamroll your stupid ideals.

Re: On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney

#675
post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vastly inappropriate comparison- there are millions of pages of text out of copyright, you can get a good translation engine using public domain. That’s is not the case for art, vast majority of art used by midjourney is not public domain.

> vast majority of art used by midjourney is not public domain Is that true? How did you establish that?

It's unfortunately also not great for translation. Language changes fast enough that training on content that went out of copyright is old data.

Re: On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney

#676
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far, looks like funding a UBI study. As the IP owners are approximately "everyone" in law, UBI is kinda the only way to compensate all the IP owners. https://openai.com/our-structure

This is a load of bullshit and I sincerely hope you know that as well as I do. As a thought experiment, let's say I pirate enough ebooks to stock a virtual library roughly equivalent in scope to a large metropolitan library system, then put up a website where you can download these books for free. I make money on the ads I run on this website, etc. This is theft, but as "compensation" I put some percentage of my reve…

IMO that's a terrible thought experiment given the situation.

LLMs do not store enough content or with enough accuracy to even close to a virtual library. Unlike, say, Google and the Wayback Machine, the former of which stores enough to show snippets from the pages it's presenting to you as search results (and they got sued for that in certain categories of result), and the latter is straight up an archive of all the sites it crawls.

Furthermore, the "percentage" in question for OpenAI is "once we've paid off our investors, all of it goes to benefitting humanity one way or another" — the parent company is a not-for-profit.

> Does that make what I'm doing okay? Should all those authors deprived of royalties on their work now, even deprived of publishing opportunities as legitimate sales collapse, understand my token contribution to UBI as fair compensation for what I'm taking from them?

Here's a different question for you: If a generative AI is trained only on out-of-copyright novels and open-licensed modern works, and then still deprives everyone of all publishing opportunities forever as in this thought experiment it's better and cheaper than any human novelist, is that any more, or any less fair on literally any person on the planet? The outcomes are the same.

I'm sure someone's already thought of making such a model, it's just a question of if they raised enough money to train such a model.

> OpenAI's product relies on a technical means of laundering intellectual property that seems tailor-made to dodge a body of existing copyright law designed by people who could not possibly have conceived of what modern genAI is capable of

You may have noticed from the version number that they're on versions 3 and 4. When version 2 came out in 2019, they said:

"""Our model, called GPT-2 (a successor to GPT), was trained simply to predict the next word in 40GB of Internet text. Due to our concerns about malicious applications of the technology, we are not releasing the trained model."""

They were mocked for this: https://slate.com/technology/2019/02/openai-gpt2-text-genera...

Even here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21306542

Indeed, they are still mocked for suggesting their models may carry any risk at all. Of any kind. There are plenty of people who want to rush forward with this and think OpenAI are needlessly slow and cautious.

You may also have noticed their CEO gave testimony in the US Congress, and that the people asking him questions were surprised he said (to paraphrase) "regulate us specifically — not the open source models, they're not good enough yet — us".

To the extent that any GenAI can pose an economic threat to a creative job, it has to be better than a human in that same job. For now, IMO, they're assistant-level, not economic-threat-level. And when they get to economic-threat-level (which in fairness could be next month or next year), they'll be that threat even if none of your IP ever entered their training runs.

Re: On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney

#677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without giving bias to humanity No, we should absolutely be giving bias to humanity. Flesh and blood humans matter, their lives matter, their thoughts matter and their work matters. Machines are tools for them to use not entities given the same rights and same consideration. I reject your whole premise.

Descartes told us that animals are mere soulless automatons, not entities given the same rights and same consideration as humans. Well ok, that was 300 years ago and views have changed dramatically since then.

Nice strawman.

Re: On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney

#678
post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For transparency, I am an advocate for human made art, If you believe AI tooling is an artform then you categorically are advocating against human made art as far as I am concerned.

This is just gatekeeping. Art is not better because it was made by hand as opposed to with technology. If I use a generative model to make art then I’m an artist.

> If I use a generative model to make art then I’m an artist.

You are free to think so, but it really doesn't make you an artist any more than wearing a medal you bought second hand makes you a war hero.

Something else did the work and you're just claiming credit. It's honestly kind of sad.

Re: On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney

#679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> If you think OpenAI is less valuable because it can't use copyrighted content, then it should give some of that value back to the content. But we are allowed to use copyrighted content. We are not allowed to copy copyrighted content. We are allowed to view and consume it, to be influenced by it, and under many circumstances even outright copy it. If one doesn't want anyone to see/consume or be influenced by one's…

Sorry, but these arguments by analogy are patently ridiculous. We are not talking about the eons old human practice of creative artistic endeavor, which yes, is clearly derivative in some fashion, but which we have well established practices around. We are discussing a new phenomenon of mass replication or derivation by machine at a scale impossible for a single individual to achieve by manual effort. Further, artist…

>> a future in which capital concentrates even further into the hands of a few technological elite who make their money off of flouting existing laws and the labor of thousands

I think this is the central issue and is not limited to just AI generated art. Wealth concentrates to the few from each technological development. When robots replaced factory workers, the surplus profit went to the capital holders, not the workers who lost their jobs. AI generated art will be no different but I don't think it will replace the creative art that people will want to make, just the art that people are making to pay the bills.

Re: On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney

#680
post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's just it, nobody looking to get paid by OpenAI actually did any labor for OpenAI. They did labor for other reasons, and were happy with it Nobody working on a new cancer drug actually did any work for me. They did labour for other reasons, and were happy with it. There it is okay for me to steal their recipe and sell their cancer drug.

Nope, but it’s ok for you to read their recipe if they place it on the internet (research paper), and use it to make your own drug.

And that is a good thing we should all celebrate.
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