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MBAs who can't find jobs

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Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#71

Post by Ekaros »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #47
l2silver wrote: post #10

The article mentions MBAs graduating from top schools not being able to find a job in a tough job market, but obviously this problem is as old as time for MBA graduating any given year. One of the issues is that the MBA is a money maker for these universities, so why not graduate as many people as possible. The other issue is what people expect from these MBA programs. They see it as a way to get career flexibility,…

> One of the issues is that the MBA is a money maker for these universities, so why not graduate as many people as possible. I wonder why U.S. universities issuing MBA degrees take a "graduate as many as possible" approach, whereas medical schools use a "intentionally limit the supply of doctors" approach. Perhaps it's a game theory thing. Any one school can easily and independently increase the number of MBAs it gra…

You can not be doctor without degree. But you can certainly do same MBAs job without MBA. And then the whole doctor pipeline is much more interconnected and larger process. Simply giving out medical degree and dumping them out of the door doesn't work. Hospitals and residencies need to be involved.

Law schools might be better comparison. The number of lawyers graduated is not limited...

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#72

Post by jyunwai »

nsxwolf wrote: post #65
jyunwai wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His background is likely more than enough. In my personal experience, I've seen people land jobs they weren't at all competitive for by applying anyways, while other people (such as myself in the past) decide not to apply for openings with the idea of preparing to become fully qualified first. In the longer-run, I've observed a few of the people who did apply did struggle greatly, and either had to find a new positio…

The added context makes this all seem rather grim then. You would expect someone like him to be fighting offers off with a stick.

His case is interesting, and I imagine he shared more context in his interview, which the editor or reporter likely cut due to the article's word limit. The article briefly describes his objective as a want to land "a management role in technology," but it's likely that he's not looking for a junior project management role with his credentials.

Perhaps he's holding out for a senior or at least mid-level role as an executive or co-founder at a company in a specific part of the technology industry. But then again, as the article describes, he sent out hundreds of applications—while this is plausible for these types of roles, I always imagined these openings to be primarily shared via word-of-mouth. So out of personal curiosity, I wish the article included more details about his process in attempting a career change, and what kinds of jobs he is applying to.

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#73

Post by monero-xmr »

hinkley wrote: post #13
monero-xmr wrote: post #4

Always better to go to graduate professional school (law, business) when you have a job lined up. Going to Harvard or Yale with no plan means you might get a job after. But if you don’t, after a couple years the degree is a scarlet letter. I have a friend who went to a good law school but graduated middle of class. He does the same job he did before, but is still paying off the $200k debt he took :(

Does he put it on his resume or leave it off?

He was unable to get employment as a lawyer, and once you miss the boat for a lawyer job you have "failed" and no one wants to hire you entry level once you haven't been able to find any work for a few years.

He's just at his old job, which is something deep in the bowels of health insurance that somehow extracts more money from insurance providers and feeds it to hospitals. It is fairly well-paid and he works from home, but this was not the outcome he wanted nor the $200k debt.

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#74

Post by monero-xmr »

ravivooda wrote: post #5
monero-xmr wrote: post #4

Always better to go to graduate professional school (law, business) when you have a job lined up. Going to Harvard or Yale with no plan means you might get a job after. But if you don’t, after a couple years the degree is a scarlet letter. I have a friend who went to a good law school but graduated middle of class. He does the same job he did before, but is still paying off the $200k debt he took :(

How does that work? How do you line up a job 2 years ahead of time? Curious.

You work in an industry, make connections, and have some ability to use the professional degree successfully.

Just getting an MBA is not necessarily going to guarantee success as a deal maker or whatever. You should have a plan beforehand if only to reduce risk of time and money wasted.

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#75

Post by sct202 »

jyunwai wrote: post #48
nsxwolf wrote: post #25

> “I had no idea, a year later, I’d still be searching for full-time employment,” said 32-year-old AJ Edelman, who decided to pursue a Yale M.B.A. to ease his transition from a skeleton-racing career into a management role in technology. Hundreds of applications later, he estimates, he’s still looking. From skeleton racing to management in technology? Did he really expect the Yale MBA would be enough, combined with "…

His background is likely more than enough. In my personal experience, I've seen people land jobs they weren't at all competitive for by applying anyways, while other people (such as myself in the past) decide not to apply for openings with the idea of preparing to become fully qualified first. In the longer-run, I've observed a few of the people who did apply did struggle greatly, and either had to find a new positio…

At my job, we are seeing way more perfect fit candidates than we did a few years ago. A few years ago I could see us giving an offer to someone like this, but now that there are basically unicorns showing up I don't think I could justify it.

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#76

Post by tacticalturtle »

abadpoli wrote: post #66
tacticalturtle wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most colleges will not allow you to enroll for a bachelor’s in CS if you already have a bachelors in something else (and also is looked down on), and likewise a master’s in CS is very unlikely. I’m skeptical of this claim. Programs like the Georgia Tech Online Masters in Computer Science were tailor made for this scenario - and I’ve known several who have followed it to great success. Edit: looking into it - blocki…

Georgia Tech’s online computer science major lists a preferred qualification of already holding a bachelors in CS, math, computer engineering, or electrical engineering, so I don’t think it’s “tailor made” for people that are looking for a mid-career pivot from non-tech to tech.

I suppose non-STEM is a different case - the people I knew were Chemistry and Mechanical engineering backgrounds.

I’d probably tell someone to grab some CS classes at a community college and apply anyway.

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#77

Post by chad_strategic »

I obtained my MBA in 2007, just before the onset of the Great Recession, leading to significant job market challenges. Despite these hurdles, I steered through the difficulties by delving into coding during the expansive era of the internet (think Facebook, Google, iPhone apps).

Jumping on the startup bandwagon, I surfed the wave, ultimately establishing myself as an MBA with a robust tech background. Today, I find myself outpacing most CTOs. While the initial journey was challenging, I managed to redirect the course successfully.

For what it's worth, I went to a good B school, but my deployment to IRAQ with the Marines far out weights my MBA.

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#78

Post by Retric »

mistrial9 wrote: post #70
Retric wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No? You want negative feedback signals in a free market economy not just positive ones. An excessive number of people got MBA degrees therefore it ends up being a bad choice for many of them. That then feeds back and noticeably reduces the number of people getting an MBA in the future.

"excess people" ? I am not sure you are looking past the immediate point here.. micro-economics are sometimes useful, but not the whole story..

> "excess people"

More excess credentials than people. Someone with an MBA can easily be employed in a job that doesn’t make use of that MBA.

Also, nothing says those people can’t find a management/consulting job in 1 or even 5 years. That delay would still discourage people from getting an MBA.

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#79

Post by mistrial9 »

Retric wrote: post #78
mistrial9 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"excess people" ? I am not sure you are looking past the immediate point here.. micro-economics are sometimes useful, but not the whole story..

> "excess people" More excess credentials than people. Someone with an MBA can easily be employed in a job that doesn’t make use of that MBA. Also, nothing says those people can’t find a management/consulting job in 1 or even 5 years. That delay would still discourage people from getting an MBA.

ok - there are several different lenses with which to look at this story.

try - personal story; wider market for new MBAs in 2024; importance of the MBA degree at all; then much larger topics about business size and structures, level playing fields, advantages and leverage of established entities in the finance environment, other things.

Can we agree that employment replaced by automation is in the news daily; capital asset bubbles as well; post-covid, brick and mortar retail, restaurants, and local small business of all kinds, continue to die off in most of the USA. replaced with a single Walmart or Home Depot for example. It is a given that most business, business is very competitive even in stable situations.

Here is a charismatic and recently trained person who completed an MBA. The degree is for increasing their own business skills, to both maximize personal gain perhaps, and to be saavy in practical ways to lead, sell and manage. (I agree that the MBA itself is oversold by its nature, and that plenty of graduates are looking for personal gain first) One could cynically say, and not be wrong, that this MBA found a way to get some publicity, often an asset.. and really, why does this one person need so much attention.

but .. is the whole society really so overflowing with able people who commit to formal training that they are "not able" to work with their training? lots of caveats to that but.. this is a trend on a large scale. Other societies may not work this way at all.. (thinking Asia and Islam offhand). In this environment, can this MBA really just "easily work in some other capacity".. I know a guy that got a real ulcer from working in a demeaning situation in an office, while looking for other jobs.

so - any empathy at all for an individual who is making clear advances but ends up badly .. or any concern for a system of economics that may be overcharged heading in a destructive direction .. or in the middle thinking about how real people start to fit into non-trivial, competitive business environments.

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