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On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney
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Re: On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney
#62The argument here seems more mad at the decline of the ability of an individual to promote their work on social media channels (which is indeed a problem that's getting worse for reasons unrelated to generative AI) rather than losing money to people making AI art with Midjourney.
The point is that they no longer have a choice not to enrich profit-seeking companies with their unpaid labor, because by posting to those sites, you're generating the content they place their ads beside. And then pointing out that at least with social media, they had a choice in the matter, while AI scrapers just take it, wherever they might have posted it.
going to take some HN karma hit for this but i just don't get it. the price of anything you sell (or do not wish to give away for free) is not how much it cost to build but how much someone else is willing to pay for it.
If you think the work is so great. charge for it. let the market decide. i think twitter/x does this now somewhat.
how is this not similar to thinking google owes me money because my tweet appeared in their search results?
Re: On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney
#63> But I can't even get cartoons to most people for free now, without doing unpaid work for the profit-making companies who own the most use channels of communication This is the sticking point for me. OpenAI isn't a profit-making company, but it's certainly a valuable company. A valuable company that is built from the work of content others created without transferring any value back to them. Regardless of legalities…
I thought this was more of a reference to Facebook, etc. I could be wrong, though, it's pretty vague.
I think it it's a reference to the media landscape, Facebook and OpenAI inclusive.
Re: On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
What’s hacky about it? They’re using the discord chat bot interaction tools to make interactions for their chat bot. They also have a UI on their website, not sure if it’s still closed or not.
It's still closed. It's hacky because Discord is generally a messaging app. You can wedge things into messaging apps but the UI is suboptimal. I did an AI art symposium at Google towards fall 2022 and it was __impossible__ to explain to a designer how to use it in under 2 minutes. Ended up dropping it entirely.
I find it very hard to believe that it was impossible to explain how to use the basics midjourny’s discord bot in 2 mins.
Re: On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney
#65As someone who still has a couple physical Cat and Girl zines, and who spent those same years writing free software for real people and not to pad a resume or force a standards committee's hand... this hits really hard.
Re: On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm always reticent to fully engage in "The Dialogue," regardless of its momentary configuration. It's a smoothie made from shibboleths; you have to be able to detect them at only a few parts per million because once these things metastasize, they stop being about whatever they were about and instead become increasingly loud recitations of various catechisms and loyalty oaths. Boy does that ring true.
Yes, the entire post (it's short) is well worth a read.
And from the following day, their paraphrasing of https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/4/23946353/generative-ai-co... is succinct:
> Meta: We stole so much stuff that, actually, we didn't steal any stuff
> Google: If things were different, things would be totally different
> Andreeson Horowitz: But we already spent so much money
> Microsoft: Think about how this would hurt the little guys, like us
> Anthropic: Fucking shut up about it
> Hugging Face: It's super legal but honestly it might not be idk
> StabilityAI: It's legal in places that aren't here
Re: On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney
#67There is simple way to fix this.
Ban private large models trained on public data, require them to be public weights.
If a company wants to train large private model, they can do it with their own data.
Re: On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney
#68The sooner anyone making profit from models trained on creators proprietary content start paying for the content they’re using the better for creators, society and even the AI companies. It’s pretty tiring hearing people argue about whether copyright law applies to AI companies or not. It applies. Just get on and sort out a proper licensing model.
> "The bottom line is this," the firm, known as a16z, wrote. "Imposing the cost of actual or potential copyright liability on the creators of AI models will either kill or significantly hamper their development." > The firm said payment for all of the copyrighted material already used in LLMs would cost the companies that built them "tens or hundreds of billions of dollars a year in royalty payments." https://www.bus…
Good.
Re: On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney
#69> But I can't even get cartoons to most people for free now, without doing unpaid work for the profit-making companies who own the most use channels of communication This is the sticking point for me. OpenAI isn't a profit-making company, but it's certainly a valuable company. A valuable company that is built from the work of content others created without transferring any value back to them. Regardless of legalities…
This was a reference to Instagram, et. al., where distributing your illustrations there implicitly allows thier Ad machine to profit from your work
Re: On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train Midjourney
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is the author so concerned about enriching profit-seeking companies?
Fixed, should have specified "unpaid labor." Hopefully that makes it clear.
Going out of your way to voluntarily choose to post your work on the internet, and on social media specifically, in order to market yourself and connect with new readers, is unpaid labor?
No it's not. It's being sour that you live in an interconnected world where others might find a way to benefit as a side effect of your own efforts.