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Ask HN: Where can I find good legal documents?

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Re: Ask HN: Where can I find good legal documents?

#41

Post by grepfru_it »

PeterisP wrote: post #15
born2discover wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This actually depends. If you need something specific, tailored to your needs and operational niche, then obviously you can not forego a visit to a lawyer. However, for some documents, a reputable template is more than enough. (As even lawyers rarely draft "bespoke" documents for every client and happen to use a templated text more often than not).

You have a point, but it's important to note that the template needs to be local to you. Laws aren't global, what is an appropriate T&C for a service hosted in USA won't be okay for a service hosted in UK or Singapore, and even within USA differences in state laws sometimes are critical, so you need to ensure that you're not getting a template aimed at somewhere else.

Illinois (biometric laws) come to mind

Re: Ask HN: Where can I find good legal documents?

#42

Post by samstave »

dylan604 wrote: post #38
samstave wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know of any similar resources in the Family Law area? (not sure how to specifically word my question, but helping someone with some custody related issues - and wondering if there is some resource I could be aware of to help?) Else, was going to turn to the GPTs and see what they may muster, but any even general direction pointers would be appreciated?

> was going to turn to the GPTs this seems ripe for disaster. hopefully, you weren't serious. as with all things, I'd really hope anything in the realm of legal documents from GPT would be then consulted with an actual lawyer

Sorry - I am looking for properly formatting, the fact that their case is custody was useless info I guess...

I just want to ensure that documents are formatted properly... that was all.

Re: Ask HN: Where can I find good legal documents?

#43

Post by Digory »

mushufasa wrote: post #22

Public companies have to file a lot of documents with the SEC, and often contracts get disclosed. Paid services such as Bloomberg Law are essentially glorified search engines on this free public dataset.

Surprised I had to scroll this far down to find this. Options? Employment contracts? The SEC database is golden.

If you're not doing well enough to pay the lawyer for custom advice, use the example of people who paid to get it right for them.

Re: Ask HN: Where can I find good legal documents?

#45

Post by dylan604 »

samstave wrote: post #42
dylan604 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> was going to turn to the GPTs this seems ripe for disaster. hopefully, you weren't serious. as with all things, I'd really hope anything in the realm of legal documents from GPT would be then consulted with an actual lawyer

Sorry - I am looking for properly formatting, the fact that their case is custody was useless info I guess... I just want to ensure that documents are formatted properly... that was all.

just to pile on, but forgoing a lawyer in a custody case is the definition of not smart. just don't do it.

Re: Ask HN: Where can I find good legal documents?

#47

Post by shermantanktop »

chadash wrote: post #34
samstave wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know of any similar resources in the Family Law area? (not sure how to specifically word my question, but helping someone with some custody related issues - and wondering if there is some resource I could be aware of to help?) Else, was going to turn to the GPTs and see what they may muster, but any even general direction pointers would be appreciated?

IANAL, but there are some things where you should really get expert advice. Child custody is one of them. I think with legal docs generally, you have to decide what the stakes are and act accordingly. In general, keep in mind that most lawyers won't take a case unless there's someone with deep pockets to sue. So for that $20k loan you give to a friend, a boilerplate template is fine; if they don't want to pay you bac…

I have a friend in a messy divorce. With custody, all rational thought has gone out the window. Cost of lawyers? Doesn’t matter, sue! Need to comply or get fined? Don’t care. Court ordered therapy? Don’t feel like it.

The pockets that fund this behavior will be empty at some point. But until then, primal irrational impulses are running the show.

In a case like that, the difference between the right legal docs and the mostly right docs would be huge.

Re: Ask HN: Where can I find good legal documents?

#48

Post by traceroute66 »

CPLX wrote: post #40
traceroute66 wrote: post #28

> Where can I find good legal documents? A lawyer. A lawyer. A lawyer. A lawyer. END OF STORY. And I'm saying that from a perspective of someone who used to use free/cheap template docs a long time ago. The hard reality is that free/cheap ready-made docs are highly unlikely to be suitable for your business context for one or more of the following reasons: - Jurisdiction of you or your clients - Insurance requirements…

This isn't necessarily true. I've spent six figures on legal fees easily, and I also use templates and off the shelf stuff all the time. Clerky is a good resource and is fine for most core stuff. You just can't pay lawyers every time you do everything, it's a waste of resources for small simple businesses that may never go anywhere. And the other issues is EVEN IF YOU DO that doesn't guarantee anything, most lawyers…

> it's a waste of resources for small simple businesses that may never go anywhere.

As per my original post. That statement is one made from the comfortable armchair of somebody who has not had to litigate off the back of a free/cheap ready-made contract.

What is a waste of resources is paying a lawyer to try to get you off the hook for something that could have reasonably been in the contract in the first place had you had it drafted for your specific business context rather than relying on some shit internet template.

> most lawyers are just using THEIR templates anyways and charging more.

This is bullshit and you know it.

Yes, lawyers use base templates, but that's because there are some clauses that will always need to be there no matter what. However the devil is in the details and the lawyers also sit down with you to understand your business context and those templates get edited, sometimes heavily edited depending on the business context.

The point is that you are paying the lawyer for their experience. They know what should be kept in the template. They know what should be removed from the template. They know what should be added to the template AND they know how to add stuff to the templates in a legally correct manner.

You claim to have spent time with lawyers drafting legal documents, ergo you should know that and not spread FUD.

Re: Ask HN: Where can I find good legal documents?

#49

Post by traceroute66 »

grepfru_it wrote: post #35
fortran77 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. These free legal documents are great—until you have to litigate one.

Extending this thread because it costs maybe max 2 hours of consult time with a lawyer to put one together. $500 today can save you from a $5M lawsuit tomorrow. And even then you should still read it and become intimately knowledgeable with each provision

> $500 today can save you from a $5M lawsuit tomorrow.

Yup. I've had one or two clients make all sorts of threats at me, accusing me of stuff when it was caused by their inactions.

But then funnily enough, when they finally get round to paying their lawyers to look at the contract they signed, they find they don't have a leg to stand on or at least they'll struggle to make a worthwhile case.

Re: Ask HN: Where can I find good legal documents?

#50

Post by ethbr1 »

shermantanktop wrote: post #47
chadash wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL, but there are some things where you should really get expert advice. Child custody is one of them. I think with legal docs generally, you have to decide what the stakes are and act accordingly. In general, keep in mind that most lawyers won't take a case unless there's someone with deep pockets to sue. So for that $20k loan you give to a friend, a boilerplate template is fine; if they don't want to pay you bac…

I have a friend in a messy divorce. With custody, all rational thought has gone out the window. Cost of lawyers? Doesn’t matter, sue! Need to comply or get fined? Don’t care. Court ordered therapy? Don’t feel like it. The pockets that fund this behavior will be empty at some point. But until then, primal irrational impulses are running the show. In a case like that, the difference between the right legal docs and the…

Legal divorce proceedings are like wedding planning, except every professional around you instead has a financial incentive to make you as angry and mean as possible, because it means more billable hours.
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