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Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

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Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#341

Post by lorax »

sgarland wrote: post #325
tim333 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gosh I didn't know there were toaster chips but it seems so. One here 8 pin package with pin 3 being the bagel pin. https://www.diodes.com/assets/Datasheets/PT8A2514A.pdf

I have wondered for the longest time what the BAGEL button actually did, because on my cheap toaster, it seems to do very little. Unfortunately I still have more questions after reading the schematic. SW4 (BAGEL) allows current flow through R9/LED3 (BAGEL) which raises Vbe on Q2, forward biasing it, allowing current flow through Q2, dropping Vcs. Meanwhile, power has been flowing through the main switch, with RL3/RL4…

The bagel button makes only one side of the slot get hot (or at least makes one side hotter than the other). Your toaster probably has a bagel icon on the top showing you which way to put the bagel in (cut side towards the center in every toaster I have seen).

Source: I'm not married to toaster moguls but I do peer into operating toasters to see which wires turn red. Feel free to replicate my research and post your observations.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#342

Post by diydsp »

Absolutely do not use your own capital for this. Make a compelling presentation and shop it out to investors. Use a mixture of logic, financial figures, and storytelling. Do not start from scratch, but get the most experienced people for your team. Remember: manufacturing is the lowest part of the SMILE curve. That's why things are not made in the USA.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#343

Post by crazygringo »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #302
_tom_ wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought an expensive, name brand, toaster. It's crap.

"Expensive and name brand" doesn't mean anything in the toaster world. They all come out of the same Chinese OEM factory with different badges on. Same with most comodity white goods like washing machines, fridges, microwave ovens, etc. If you want good toasters you need to hunt older models from 30+ years ago.

But what is a "good" toaster?

My $25 toaster works fine. And it's got the modern stainless steel look that blends in nicely with other modern kitchen appliances.

What benefits would a toaster from 1994 or earlier give me? My bread and bagels are currently successfully toasted.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#346

Post by FirmwareBurner »

crazygringo wrote: post #343
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Expensive and name brand" doesn't mean anything in the toaster world. They all come out of the same Chinese OEM factory with different badges on. Same with most comodity white goods like washing machines, fridges, microwave ovens, etc. If you want good toasters you need to hunt older models from 30+ years ago.

But what is a "good" toaster? My $25 toaster works fine. And it's got the modern stainless steel look that blends in nicely with other modern kitchen appliances. What benefits would a toaster from 1994 or earlier give me? My bread and bagels are currently successfully toasted.

>But what is a "good" toaster?

One that toasts your bread slices evenly every time, without under toasting it or burning it, and without you needing to fiddle with the timer know all the time in order to mitigate those issues.

If your 25$ toaster achieves that it's the lottery winning exception, not the rule. Most toaster are just terrible at toasting evenly even after you fiddle with the knob to find the right Goldielocks setting.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#347

Post by arghwhat »

sgarland wrote: post #325
tim333 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gosh I didn't know there were toaster chips but it seems so. One here 8 pin package with pin 3 being the bagel pin. https://www.diodes.com/assets/Datasheets/PT8A2514A.pdf

I have wondered for the longest time what the BAGEL button actually did, because on my cheap toaster, it seems to do very little. Unfortunately I still have more questions after reading the schematic. SW4 (BAGEL) allows current flow through R9/LED3 (BAGEL) which raises Vbe on Q2, forward biasing it, allowing current flow through Q2, dropping Vcs. Meanwhile, power has been flowing through the main switch, with RL3/RL4…

The example toaster has 2 toast slots 3 heating elements (EDIT: Technically 4, as the last element is split into two: RL3 and RL4).

Relay 2, activated when the "bagel" light is lit through the gate of Q2, disconnects neutral from heating element 2 (the one in between slot 1 and 2) and 1 (the one on the outside of slot 2).

This means that there is only power to the outside heating element of slot 1, allowing you to toast only one side of a bread or bagel.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#348

Post by terom »

tim333 wrote: post #291
arghwhat wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Toasters are refined brilliance, if done right. The concept of "done" is computed using an analog computer programmed by human experts. That hasn't been the case in ages. Modern cheap toasters use a dedicated toaster chip (... yes), which is a plain timer but with built-in retained heat compensation for when the toaster is used back-to-back. Fewer components equals cheaper toaster. A very fancy toaster would have s…

Gosh I didn't know there were toaster chips but it seems so. One here 8 pin package with pin 3 being the bagel pin. https://www.diodes.com/assets/Datasheets/PT8A2514A.pdf

https://www.mouser.fi/ProductDetail/Diodes-Incorporated/PT8A...

Now I want to buy a couple... 0.856 € unit price for 1pcs, available in stock.

New evil plan: corner the market on toaster controller ICs and build up a strategic reserve to resell to manufacturers at inflated prices.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#349

Post by chris-orgmenta »

I think it might be worth starting with pure mechanical simple goods, and working from there?

E.g. Specialised bbq tongs might be an easier entry point, allow you to build up the machinery, drills, laser cutters, mould injection equipment, etc. Putting the electronics aspect aside for now will mean you can get things to market now, rather than that extra level of design, QC, legislation etc.

0-to-toaster is a big jump, and we wouldn't attempt a monolithic deliverable like that in software-dev...

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#350

Post by silverlake »

jws wrote: post #60

I married into toaster moguls. When they sold out in '97, domestic toasters had been infeasible for years already. And this was for a company where all the knowledge, equipment, and facilities had beed paid for many decades before. (They invented the electric pop-up toaster for certain definitions of electric pop-up toaster.) Toasters are refined brilliance, if done right. The concept of "done" is computed using an a…

Making a cheap toaster for the masses is a difficult business today. Making a luxury product for a smaller audience is still feasible. I have a $300 Balmuda toaster that is honestly very good (it’s a steam oven). Previously I had a Breville toaster oven that was big enough to handle 80% of my oven tasks, but didn’t toast bread all that well. Tovala and Joule make fancy toaster ovens.
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