Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hmm, interesting. I really wonder how I could miss this all my life. (Would have made them here as well, but not anymore) Edit: spelling
To be fair, maybe I was a bit quick with this claim, I think it works across languages and is more of a generational thing, strange Reddit link (sorry) but I feel like this explains it pretty well: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fs... With the ellipsis I do feel like the tone is very context dependent.
Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)
121–130 of 135 posts
Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)
#122> Thank you for dinner” felt to me as an act of distancing Is this really? I am French so we are rather private (in the sense that friendship is something that takes time, and before that there are rather generic interactions). But if my best friend whom I adore and whatnot did a dinner for me I would thank him very much. I wild be surprised if "thank you" is not used between friends in the Netherlands
"Wie hier als vriend naar binnen gaat, komt nooit te vroeg maar steeds te laat"?
Meaning:
"Who enters here as a friend will never be early but always late."
I have to say, I'm like that, my wife definitely isn't, so it's not really a law of nature. But where I live (in the south) it's common for friends to just walk around the back of the house and walk into the door unannounced, it's a sign of true closeness. Though I also think that is getting less common. Idk, might be the internet diluting all cultures.
Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)
#123As a Frenchman, when I worked in the valley, people told me to tone it down, that I could come off as rude. On my side, I wanted to slap those people calling others they barely knew "friends", overselling their lunch as "amazing", assuring an outcome with certainty, virtue signaling or refusing to say when something was completely wrong. It's like they were always in a tiny marketing process. Eventually, I learned to…
Because indeed, the American academic culture is full of BS (perhaps the most glaring example being that the cornerstore of hiring is the recommendation letter, which to me is essentially overt nepotism - and in a recommendation letter, every candidate is the best ever, Gauss incarnate, the Chosen One to break the frontiers of knowledge, because if you say even the slightest bad or ambiguous think they're not going to get hired. But everything is like that).
The thing is that in academia everything is competitive (grants, conference acceptances, etc.) so we Europeans must be Americans as well if we want to be successful, because it's hard for a paper, proposal, etc. to get chosen if you're being realistic while some of your rivals are exaggerating everything. This is something I realized when I worked in the UK (not America, of course, but more "American" than the rest of Europe) and then even more when I worked with actual Americans, and I consider this realization to have boosted my career considerably.
Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cultural differences aren't limited to international interactions either. Here's an interesting thing about exclamation points. Apparently there are (at least) two cultures of exclamation point usage in English. Apparently one culture uses them frequently as a marker of expressing general excitedness. The other culture sees them akin to yelling, which is appropriate only a small fraction of the time. https://news.yco…
Interestingly I became aware of a similar cultural difference regarding punctuation: I frequently use three dots ‚…‘ in more informal emails at the end of a sentence to indicate that I am not sure about something yet or still wondering about it. Like „I guess we could discuss this tomorrow…“ or „Yeah, I might be able to do this…“ Some month ago an Italian PhD student of mine (I’m from Germany) asked me if I was upset…
I’ll see you there.
Has a very different vibe than:
I’ll see you there
Where the first one, with a dot, would signal the sender is mad or impatient while the latter is neutral.
I’ll see you there…
This one however… I’d also assume the sender is impatient because I just told them I’m gonna be late, or something bad happened („there“ being a funeral for example), or it’s unclear whether we will both arrive (a heavy storm might be coming, possibly blocking roads).
Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
Over the past 6 years married to a woman who grew up in China, I've become more aware of how often we Americans say the exact opposite of what they mean, but instead convey their actual meaning through context, tone of voice, or whatever. It took us about 2 years to really learn how to talk to each other.
>a woman who grew up in China That's an odd way to say what you're saying
From GP's text I assumed she's not Chinese but for whatever reason (parents worked there, she was adopted as a grown-ish kid, something else) she spent most of her formative years there.
Maybe we're both wrong but on its face what GP wrote doesn't strike as odd at all to me.
Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Amsterdam > up hill street ? Do you mean a highway ramp or a bridge?
Maybe that’s a cultural difference as well (?) I’m a non-american living in Austin, TX and what folks call hills here is different from what we call hills back home…
Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I first visited the US in 1981, I was pretty convinced (as a young, naive and somewhat ignorant Brit) that the differences between someone from New Orleans and someone from Portland, Maine were far greater than anything you could find between any two parts of Europe. Decades later, that's clearly an exaggeration or just plain wrong, but it is certainly true that people do underestimate cultural differences withi…
Case in point: in German, we even have the same words. They are mildly antiquated, but "Gesellig" and "Geselle" are almost 1:1 translations from the Dutch "gezellig" and "gezel". As a German who has worked in the Netherlands, I never felt a big difference in everyday attitude (though I have to admit the company is based very near to the German border, so maybe the differences would be bigger when compared to Amsterda…
Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
> 4. US English really needs to re-acquaint (no pun intend) itself with the word "acquaintance" as an alternative to "friend". The almost universal use of "friend" to describe anyone you know (even from the most singular and minor of interactions) really robs verbal behavior about the social environment here of so much subtlety Well, we just call them brothers or sisters if they are that close. Actually…
You can see the same thing with "neighbor". In the UK that refers to someone who lives in one of the houses adjacent to yours. In the USA it can refer to anyone who lives anywhere in some loosely-defined neighborhood. "My neighbor" can be someone who lives a mile or two away, which by UK standards is absurd.
Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)
#129The few Dutch folks I know are indeed kind of rude. One time I (Brazilian) went out to get some drinks with some Dutch friends and, omg, they spent the whole night trashing other people. I am accostumed to do it in a much more delicate way, while they didn't hold it back for a second.
Here's an example, Two middle aged British couples go to a bar in Amsterdam, and quietly sit at a table in the corner having a few drinks. The bar then becomes a Karaoke bar filled with student aged locals who are very raucous, spilling drinks etc. At the end of the night, one of the men from one of the couples goes to the bar and gives the barman a tip equal to about 20% of that tables spend. The barman then proceeds to tell the man "I dislike British women". The Dutch barman thought that was acceptable and that there would be no recourse. If that were said in many parts of the UK there's a chance the barman would have a pint glass thrown at his head for saying such a rude and out of nowhere thing.
As a Brit who has been to many, many European countries, I can say there's only really two countries that are really different and that's France and The Netherlands. Neither of their general population really feels any obligation to be courteous or polite to foreigners. The locals from every other European country I've been to have been polite/not rude as a bare minimum.
Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)
#130i don't even like myself ! i'm the worst of all humans on this planet.