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Ask HN: Do companies hire principal and staff level engineers from job postings?

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Ask HN: Do companies hire principal and staff level engineers from job postings?

#1
I'm in the same hole as a ton of other people in Canada and the U.S, such that I'm unemployed and prospects are nil. What I'm seeing is that most companies, if they have any postings, have chosen to only advertise positions for people who are comically well-decorated; Principal engineers with 10 years of experience, plus the masters degree, plus a bunch of specific cloud orchestration, scalable systems, or other devops experience that just seems entirely impractical to accumulate without simply advancing at the same company or FAANG for 15 years, which seems itself to be an unachievable tenure in this millennium.

I've been some kind of software developer for nearly 10 years, not all in a professional capacity and I don't claim that, but I'm not qualified for these positions; I just don't really have any other option but to chance it.

My question is, are qualified people actually hired through this channel, or are these postings just a formality so they can bypass some bureaucratic requirement?

Edit: Is it worth spending the time on a decent cover letter that indicates I'd be interested in discussing a lower seniority position if they don't consider me qualified for the Staff or higher? Also, this isn't relegated to startup land, more traditional online retailers, and others who's core competency isn't necessarily software

Re: Ask HN: Do companies hire principal and staff level engineers from job postings?

#2
Yes, I’ve hired for such senior level roles though a job posting or recruiter. I haven’t kept track, but I’d guesstimate that over my career it’s been 1/3 each of promotions, references, and hiring from some kind of advertising/recruiting.

Re: Ask HN: Do companies hire principal and staff level engineers from job postings?

#3
> only advertise positions for people who are comically well-decorated; Principal engineers with 10 years of experience, plus the masters degree, plus a bunch of specific cloud orchestration, scalable systems, or other devops experience that just seems entirely impractical to accumulate without simply advancing at the same company or FAANG for 15 years, which seems itself to be an unachievable tenure in this millennium.

You don’t need to spend 15 years at the same company or at FAANG to acquire these skills.

One issue that a lot of people face is that their career has been less about accumulating 10-15 years of progressively more complex experience and more about accumulating 1-2 years of experience 7-10 different times. It can take some deliberate planning to work your way upward over time and across companies rather than repeating the same arc over and over again.

Another trap is when people who want to be high-level ICs end up in management for a while, slowly getting further and further from working on the tech.

In this job market it’s hard to go from unemployed in one country to direct hire Principal in another country unless you have an extraordinary skill set. It will make more sense to get your foot in the door at any job that might work, then move up from there.

Re: Ask HN: Do companies hire principal and staff level engineers from job postings?

#4
post #3

> only advertise positions for people who are comically well-decorated; Principal engineers with 10 years of experience, plus the masters degree, plus a bunch of specific cloud orchestration, scalable systems, or other devops experience that just seems entirely impractical to accumulate without simply advancing at the same company or FAANG for 15 years, which seems itself to be an unachievable tenure in this millenni…

> their career has been less about accumulating 10-15 years of progressively more complex experience

This is difficult to avoid because most companies don't have a progressively more complex requirements for people to learn from.

Re: Ask HN: Do companies hire principal and staff level engineers from job postings?

#5
post #3

> only advertise positions for people who are comically well-decorated; Principal engineers with 10 years of experience, plus the masters degree, plus a bunch of specific cloud orchestration, scalable systems, or other devops experience that just seems entirely impractical to accumulate without simply advancing at the same company or FAANG for 15 years, which seems itself to be an unachievable tenure in this millenni…

"One issue that a lot of people face is that their career has been less about accumulating 10-15 years of progressively more complex experience and more about accumulating 1-2 years of experience 7-10 different times."

This could also be worded as:

"One issue that a lot of people face is that they did not work at prestigious technical companies. Having a long tenure at such companies gives hiring managers confidence in placing them into principal level roles, regardless of what the candidate actually learned at said company. Everything is about the illusion of competence."

Re: Ask HN: Do companies hire principal and staff level engineers from job postings?

#6
post #3

> only advertise positions for people who are comically well-decorated; Principal engineers with 10 years of experience, plus the masters degree, plus a bunch of specific cloud orchestration, scalable systems, or other devops experience that just seems entirely impractical to accumulate without simply advancing at the same company or FAANG for 15 years, which seems itself to be an unachievable tenure in this millenni…

"One issue that a lot of people face is that their career has been less about accumulating 10-15 years of progressively more complex experience and more about accumulating 1-2 years of experience 7-10 different times." This could also be worded as: "One issue that a lot of people face is that they did not work at prestigious technical companies. Having a long tenure at such companies gives hiring managers confidence…

Disagree. I've worked with engineers who were taking on much more business responsibility after two years than others who are basically moderately proficient code bots after twenty. There is a huge difference in competency at the stuff that scales well, such that some people don't even notice it's a skill at all and others instantly gravitate to it it. Principal roles are for the people who learn to do them (with some error bars of course.. And everyone knows when that happens).

Re: Ask HN: Do companies hire principal and staff level engineers from job postings?

#7
post #3

> only advertise positions for people who are comically well-decorated; Principal engineers with 10 years of experience, plus the masters degree, plus a bunch of specific cloud orchestration, scalable systems, or other devops experience that just seems entirely impractical to accumulate without simply advancing at the same company or FAANG for 15 years, which seems itself to be an unachievable tenure in this millenni…

I suppose the nature of that quote is more about the exaggerated nature of the requirements compared to the rather unlikely ability to fulfill those requirements without gradually climbing at a company with an endless level of advancement in an IC role, but not excluding the possibility it could be done otherwise. That said, I definitely suffer from this problem, but it's in-part a result of both no clear way to advance in most circumstances, and repeated volatility in both the market, world, and my life. Now, there aren't jobs to advance from, even if I could land one, and prior to being laid off, I'd most likely have just continued doing either my regular course of work or eventually being offered a managing role. My impression is that it would be a rare circumstance to be offered a higher level IC position at a different company without making a horizontal move in role and building the trust there.

I wouldn't say I've actually repeated the same arc ever, it would just seem that way on the surface, and maybe I should think about how to make it not seem that way.

Re: Ask HN: Do companies hire principal and staff level engineers from job postings?

#8
I wouldn't worry about crazy requirements; they aren't hard and fast. There have been hilarious examples of this. DHH, the creator of Rails, once posted about a job posting asking for ten years of Rails experience when at the time Rails was something like nine years old, meaning he was the only person on the planet qualified for the job.

Job postings are often run through HR, who typically lack enough context for the role to know what they truly need. They put in the usual language and pad the requirements. Think about what the real role is, and OBJECTIVELY ask yourself if you could do that job. For example, someone with three years of hard-core React is probably what they really need when they say they want someone with 15 years of Javascript.

Re: Ask HN: Do companies hire principal and staff level engineers from job postings?

#9
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"One issue that a lot of people face is that their career has been less about accumulating 10-15 years of progressively more complex experience and more about accumulating 1-2 years of experience 7-10 different times." This could also be worded as: "One issue that a lot of people face is that they did not work at prestigious technical companies. Having a long tenure at such companies gives hiring managers confidence…

Disagree. I've worked with engineers who were taking on much more business responsibility after two years than others who are basically moderately proficient code bots after twenty. There is a huge difference in competency at the stuff that scales well, such that some people don't even notice it's a skill at all and others instantly gravitate to it it. Principal roles are for the people who learn to do them (with som…

Can you provide an example where this has happened both outside of a FAANG and outside of management?

Re: Ask HN: Do companies hire principal and staff level engineers from job postings?

#10
In some companies, staff positions can only be effectively done by someone who has been there for 10 years. They know the specific tech stack that the company uses, know the application, know where the bodies are buried, and everyone in the company trusts them. It's basically impossible for someone to parachute in and do the job.
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