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Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

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Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#91

Post by floxy »

stcredzero wrote: post #50
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #20

As a Frenchman, when I worked in the valley, people told me to tone it down, that I could come off as rude. On my side, I wanted to slap those people calling others they barely knew "friends", overselling their lunch as "amazing", assuring an outcome with certainty, virtue signaling or refusing to say when something was completely wrong. It's like they were always in a tiny marketing process. Eventually, I learned to…

Over the past 6 years married to a woman who grew up in China, I've become more aware of how often we Americans say the exact opposite of what they mean, but instead convey their actual meaning through context, tone of voice, or whatever. It took us about 2 years to really learn how to talk to each other.

Could you give us some examples?

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#92

Post by mrbadguy »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #43
thinkingtoilet wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our worlds are so different. I live in rural Massachusetts, it's a slower pace of life than New York City. People, on average, in extremely different environments will value different things and act differently. It's not 'rude' for a busy lunch place in NYC to expect you to order and get out of the way. They need to feed 15 million people.

They “need” as if they were some sort of soup kitchen for the needy and not an expensive-as-fuck posh place. They can fuck right off, I’ll take my time enjoying the food and use of the premises that I paid for, thank you very much.

Christ that escalated quickly…

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#93

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

Jensson wrote: post #90
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I first visited the US in 1981, I was pretty convinced (as a young, naive and somewhat ignorant Brit) that the differences between someone from New Orleans and someone from Portland, Maine were far greater than anything you could find between any two parts of Europe. Decades later, that's clearly an exaggeration or just plain wrong, but it is certainly true that people do underestimate cultural differences withi…

I don't think people overestimate the cultural difference between Finland and Italy for example, they are extremely different. The language barriers makes Europe much more culturally diverse, but also makes that diversity much harder to discover since you can't fully understand a culture without learning its language. It is more like the cultural difference between Canada and Mexico, you don't have such a wide spread…

I think that the language diversity tends to make it less apparent that people are actually more alike than they seem. I am not claiming that Finns and Italians as a culture are identical other than language, just that the language difference makes them seem more different than they actually are.

The opposite is true in the USA: nearly everyone speaking English to each other, watching the same TV shows, driving the same cars, eating the same breakfast cereals - easy to believe they must all be culturally very similar, when in fact they are not.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#94

Post by wenc »

bee_rider wrote: post #33
joecool1029 wrote: post #6

I wonder if the dutch history is why most new yorkers seem to be very direct. There are definitely different regions of America that pull the fake thing more than others (one example I can think of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bless_your_heart )

People in lots of the Northeast are, of course, known to be a bit brusque or direct, including the non-Dutch areas. I think it’s just that it has been a busy, high population area for a long time (by US standards at least). When you and everyone around you has to do lots of little interactions all day, you show care by keeping things short and efficient. Also “bless your heart” is the dumbest expression in the world.…

These are the stereotypes: (that mostly track my experiences living in different parts of the country)

In the northeast, people are kind but not nice. They'll help you out when you have flat tire but may grumble under their breath that you might need to learn how to change your tires yourself. It takes a long time to get to know them, but once you do, they'll take their shirts off their backs for you.

In the pacific northwest, people are nice but not kind. They'll be super polite to you but when you ask for help or ask to hang out, they'll snub you. They're mostly homebodies and they already have enough friends, no room for more.

In the midwest, people are kind and nice. They'll help you out and they'll invite you to their homes for a meal. But they are somewhat cautious of outsiders.

In the south, people mostly just have a nice façade that is skin deep. They'll be nice and friendly to you and talk to you all day, but they may not care that much for you at all. Their friendliness is more about them wanting to feel that they are nice people, and less about them actually caring about you. Many will talk behind your back ("bless your heart" culture).

Terms like Seattle Freeze, Minnesota Nice, Southern Hospitality are all overgeneralizations and don't apply to each individual, but nevertheless capture a part of the culture that is at least somewhat true.

For instance, a 2008 survey showed WA state ranked 48th out of 50 in trait extraversion. Seattle definitely feels socially different from other places -- it is very palpable.

Here's the paper ranking 50 US states on the Five Factor model (Extraversion, Agreeableness, Conscientiousness, Neuroticism and Openness)

https://pdodds.w3.uvm.edu/research/papers/others/2008/rentfr...

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#96

Post by avhception »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #62
jansan wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in the valley seem to be quite different from people in the southern states (the only part of the US that I have been to). I wonder if the differences within the USA are actually be as significant as the differences between parts of the US and Europe.

When I first visited the US in 1981, I was pretty convinced (as a young, naive and somewhat ignorant Brit) that the differences between someone from New Orleans and someone from Portland, Maine were far greater than anything you could find between any two parts of Europe. Decades later, that's clearly an exaggeration or just plain wrong, but it is certainly true that people do underestimate cultural differences withi…

Case in point: in German, we even have the same words. They are mildly antiquated, but "Gesellig" and "Geselle" are almost 1:1 translations from the Dutch "gezellig" and "gezel". As a German who has worked in the Netherlands, I never felt a big difference in everyday attitude (though I have to admit the company is based very near to the German border, so maybe the differences would be bigger when compared to Amsterdam or something).

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#97

Post by 082349872349872 »

kazen44 wrote: post #75
j7ake wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowhere in American is asking “how are you today” to a cashier abnormal. But the article suggests that it is indeed abnormal from a a Dutch perspective. There are distinctly American customs and cultures that Europeans would look as stereotypically American.

asking someone how they are in the netherlands is considered a genuine question about someone's wellbeing, and is considered very out of place if you don't know the person. (a cashier for instance). Also, when asking this, expect a real response back.

Q. How do you astonish an american?

A. When they ask how you are, tell them.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#98

Post by 082349872349872 »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #29

A couple of questions/observations as someone born in the UK who emigrated to the US at 25. 1. I wonder when this "difference between culture-driven emotions" fades away. I've been in the US for 35 years now, and I still sometimes sense that I'm viewing interactions the way a British person would (less often than I used to) 2. I wonder how the "noise" of differences between individuals compares in "amplitude" to the…

Also useful: "colleague"

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#99

Post by Jensson »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #93
Jensson wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think people overestimate the cultural difference between Finland and Italy for example, they are extremely different. The language barriers makes Europe much more culturally diverse, but also makes that diversity much harder to discover since you can't fully understand a culture without learning its language. It is more like the cultural difference between Canada and Mexico, you don't have such a wide spread…

I think that the language diversity tends to make it less apparent that people are actually more alike than they seem. I am not claiming that Finns and Italians as a culture are identical other than language, just that the language difference makes them seem more different than they actually are. The opposite is true in the USA: nearly everyone speaking English to each other, watching the same TV shows, driving the s…

We know there are differences within countries, but those differences tend to get exaggerated since you live in them. Even in European countries people tend to say "People from city X are very brash, people from city Y are very warm and welcoming", so they know that even though they consume the same news, speak the same language etc things can be different. Or they say "People from area X are very racist, area Y is very liberal".

But we also know that there are much bigger differences if you cross many national borders and language barriers by going to the other side of Europe, they too will have those micro differences but when going there you also get many major macro differences.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#100

Post by greyface- »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #88
kazen44 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tipping in my opinion is rather rude. as a bussiness, you are basically asking for a handout to make the lives of your waiting staff bearable. In my opinion this mean you should not run a business. Why would i tip someone when they do their job? Should we do this for all jobs? (the same goes for the military in my opinion).

I am (or was) fundamentally against tipping, and I agree that people should simply get paid to do their job. However, I've followed the debates occuring in the USA as a handful of restaurants have experimented with no-tip policies, and I am now really ambivalent about the practice. Several restaurants with owners who sounded very committed to end tipping have returned to it; I've read remarks from many waitstaff who…

One frequent criticism of tipping is that its rewards are distributed unevenly among workers, based on traits such as gender and physical appearance. When reading remarks from tipped workers, have you noticed any correlations with these traits?
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