Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022) • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#51

Post by epolanski » Mon, Jan 15, 2024, 10:18 PM UTC

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #20

As a Frenchman, when I worked in the valley, people told me to tone it down, that I could come off as rude. On my side, I wanted to slap those people calling others they barely knew "friends", overselling their lunch as "amazing", assuring an outcome with certainty, virtue signaling or refusing to say when something was completely wrong. It's like they were always in a tiny marketing process. Eventually, I learned to…

Felt the same in Ohio. I'm polish.

Spent 6 months at Ohio State as exchange student and I loved it and hated it.

I remember once being asked how was I and me answering honestly, just for an american friend to reprimend me on actually answering.

I was like, "why the hell you asking how am I if you don't care?".

Got to admit though no place is easier to make friends than US. This excess talking can often lay fertile ground to deeper connection that is harder to find elsewhere.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#52

Post by dotnet00 » Mon, Jan 15, 2024, 10:18 PM UTC

ks1723 wrote: post #19

floxy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cultural differences aren't limited to international interactions either. Here's an interesting thing about exclamation points. Apparently there are (at least) two cultures of exclamation point usage in English. Apparently one culture uses them frequently as a marker of expressing general excitedness. The other culture sees them akin to yelling, which is appropriate only a small fraction of the time. https://news.yco…

Interestingly I became aware of a similar cultural difference regarding punctuation: I frequently use three dots ‚…‘ in more informal emails at the end of a sentence to indicate that I am not sure about something yet or still wondering about it. Like „I guess we could discuss this tomorrow…“ or „Yeah, I might be able to do this…“ Some month ago an Italian PhD student of mine (I’m from Germany) asked me if I was upset…

I think the ellipses have that connotation in a lot of places and kind of like with all-caps and exclamation marks, it doesn't seem as strongly connected to culture.

Some of my Indian friends use it the same way as you do, which often throws off some of my American friends, who interpret it as impatience, and vice versa.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#53

Post by ska » Mon, Jan 15, 2024, 10:18 PM UTC

I've suspected Postel's law applies to human communication also, mutatis mutandis.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#54

Post by forinti » Mon, Jan 15, 2024, 10:18 PM UTC

I don't think you know rudeness until you've had to deal with Portuguese bureaucracy.

It's so blunt it actually makes me laugh.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#55

Post by teekert » Mon, Jan 15, 2024, 10:19 PM UTC

fredsmith219 wrote: post #42

So which is it? Do you want fake civility or sincere rudeness?

The whole point is is that it’s not fake, it feels fake to us, and we (I’m Dutch) are not rude, it feels rude to Americans. We value different things. They are trying to be nice by making compliments, we try to connect by being brutally honest (orthogonal but both positive?). I can tell you our Dutch waiters can learn a thing or two from their US counterparts about service (well maybe it’s also because we hardly tip, but still).

Germans are already different by the way, my German colleague was a bit shocked when he had a hair cut and one colleague walked in asking if he tried to do it himself followed by another asking if he fell down the stairs. It’s camaraderie, I guess mostly in younger people. Honestly his hair wasn’t bad at all.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#56

Post by JumpinJack_Cash » Mon, Jan 15, 2024, 10:19 PM UTC

Alcohol will smoothen our cultural differences! /s

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#57

Post by yread » Mon, Jan 15, 2024, 10:19 PM UTC

technothrasher wrote: post #16

Nevin1901 wrote: post #2

As someone who recently moved from The Netherlands to USA, I found this article to be really great at explaining the reason why many Europeans find Americans to be fake. I myself had experienced all of the social experiences the author talked about, and found myself confused as to what a "friend" was in The USA. I also find it very interesting how the author described emotions as cultured - not just something which w…

Here's a cultural question I've been wondering since I visited Amsterdam as an American- I was walking along an up hill street in the evening, and I saw a young lady talking to her friends and smoking, with a baby in a stroller. The stroller started to roll down the hill slightly and she didn't seem to notice. It then picked up a little speed, so I moved to intercept it, and rolled it back up to her. When I delivered…

> Amsterdam

> up hill street

?

Do you mean a highway ramp or a bridge?

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#58

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Mon, Jan 15, 2024, 10:19 PM UTC

dr_dshiv wrote: post #46

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #29

A couple of questions/observations as someone born in the UK who emigrated to the US at 25. 1. I wonder when this "difference between culture-driven emotions" fades away. I've been in the US for 35 years now, and I still sometimes sense that I'm viewing interactions the way a British person would (less often than I used to) 2. I wonder how the "noise" of differences between individuals compares in "amplitude" to the…

> 4. US English really needs to re-acquaint (no pun intend) itself with the word "acquaintance" as an alternative to "friend". The almost universal use of "friend" to describe anyone you know (even from the most singular and minor of interactions) really robs verbal behavior about the social environment here of so much subtlety Well, we just call them brothers or sisters if they are that close. Actually…

You can see the same thing with "neighbor". In the UK that refers to someone who lives in one of the houses adjacent to yours. In the USA it can refer to anyone who lives anywhere in some loosely-defined neighborhood. "My neighbor" can be someone who lives a mile or two away, which by UK standards is absurd.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#59

Post by StreetChief » Mon, Jan 15, 2024, 10:20 PM UTC

rafaelero wrote: post #36

The few Dutch folks I know are indeed kind of rude. One time I (Brazilian) went out to get some drinks with some Dutch friends and, omg, they spent the whole night trashing other people. I am accostumed to do it in a much more delicate way, while they didn't hold it back for a second.

Your singular experience may not be representative of all Dutch...

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#60

Post by mpol » Mon, Jan 15, 2024, 10:20 PM UTC

rafaelero wrote: post #36

The few Dutch folks I know are indeed kind of rude. One time I (Brazilian) went out to get some drinks with some Dutch friends and, omg, they spent the whole night trashing other people. I am accostumed to do it in a much more delicate way, while they didn't hold it back for a second.

That is considered rude in the Netherlands as well. But yes, many people do it. And you know that if you are out of sight, they will talk that way about you. It's a certain way of lashing out or letting go in an emotional way, some way to survive the complexity of life. It is correct to call it ugly. It can even be correct to talk to people about what they are doing. Ofcourse, if people are old and set in their ways, there is no helping. But young people can still be educated.

There is some idea that you need to be "strong" (whatever that is) or "fit in", which is just wrong to me. If you don't, people judge you and talk bad about you. I know lots of people who do it about many people, even their closest friends.