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Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

behavioralscientist.org

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Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#31

Post by mpol »

technothrasher wrote: post #16
Nevin1901 wrote: post #2

As someone who recently moved from The Netherlands to USA, I found this article to be really great at explaining the reason why many Europeans find Americans to be fake. I myself had experienced all of the social experiences the author talked about, and found myself confused as to what a "friend" was in The USA. I also find it very interesting how the author described emotions as cultured - not just something which w…

Here's a cultural question I've been wondering since I visited Amsterdam as an American- I was walking along an up hill street in the evening, and I saw a young lady talking to her friends and smoking, with a baby in a stroller. The stroller started to roll down the hill slightly and she didn't seem to notice. It then picked up a little speed, so I moved to intercept it, and rolled it back up to her. When I delivered…

We live in a bizarro world.

Not sure if that was what she meant, I wasnt there. But if I responded that way, this would be the meaning.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#32

Post by Krasnol »

It was always fun seeing new people at the US company I've been working in Germany. The way the Germans fell for all the BS sweet talk in the beginning and just couldn't believe that it actually is BS when you warned them until they actually felt it. It lead to some weird conversations, especially when they tried to clear up a situation which has been created through US BS corporate talk. You had the German speaking the plain facts vs. the American who on one had had to keep their cool, keep the BS running AND somehow deliver the actual message because in the end it was important.

Somehow the Germans learned faster, though.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#33

Post by bee_rider »

joecool1029 wrote: post #6

I wonder if the dutch history is why most new yorkers seem to be very direct. There are definitely different regions of America that pull the fake thing more than others (one example I can think of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bless_your_heart )

People in lots of the Northeast are, of course, known to be a bit brusque or direct, including the non-Dutch areas. I think it’s just that it has been a busy, high population area for a long time (by US standards at least). When you and everyone around you has to do lots of little interactions all day, you show care by keeping things short and efficient.

Also “bless your heart” is the dumbest expression in the world. Oh wow look at me I’ve said something that sounds nice, but actually it means something secretly rude, maybe, but only I know how I meant it! That’s just poor communication.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#34

Post by kazen44 »

9dev wrote: post #24

> When my son’s teacher told my mom she was being appreciated as a grandmother, she emphasized that my mom was special to her grandchildren— a domain over which she could claim to have some authority, being the teacher of my son. This is not fake at all: it is just a feeling that comes from a focus on those features or accomplishments that would give the other person reason to feel good about themselves. You are a wo…

> I get that the intent is to make another person feel good about themselves, but if you praise anything and everyone, how does this praise convey anything special?

i have noticed that the inverse also exists.

Especially in northern/eastern europe.

Calling out the cynical truth and how everything is bad but could also be so much worse seems to be way for people to connect. This often happens in a crisis situation aswell.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#35

Post by holoduke »

technothrasher wrote: post #16
Nevin1901 wrote: post #2

As someone who recently moved from The Netherlands to USA, I found this article to be really great at explaining the reason why many Europeans find Americans to be fake. I myself had experienced all of the social experiences the author talked about, and found myself confused as to what a "friend" was in The USA. I also find it very interesting how the author described emotions as cultured - not just something which w…

Here's a cultural question I've been wondering since I visited Amsterdam as an American- I was walking along an up hill street in the evening, and I saw a young lady talking to her friends and smoking, with a baby in a stroller. The stroller started to roll down the hill slightly and she didn't seem to notice. It then picked up a little speed, so I moved to intercept it, and rolled it back up to her. When I delivered…

A bit ashamed probably, but definitely not the reaction you would expect from a Dutch person who almost lost her pram. A normal reaction would include a 'thank you' and maybe a joke to justify the act.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#36

Post by rafaelero »

The few Dutch folks I know are indeed kind of rude. One time I (Brazilian) went out to get some drinks with some Dutch friends and, omg, they spent the whole night trashing other people. I am accostumed to do it in a much more delicate way, while they didn't hold it back for a second.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#37

Post by bananamerica »

floxy wrote: post #27
bananamerica wrote: post #22

I don't believe Americans are fake, but I do believe that Americans are trained since an early age to display at all times that they're not a threat, and that is kind of sad.

>I do believe that Americans are trained since an early age to display at all times that they're not a threat Interesting. Since I'm the fish who can't see the water, could you provide me with some examples of this?

Just look at how some primates use an abundance of facial muscles to establish they're not a threat. Or how having the local accent can show you are not an invader. The sing-songy greetings,the smiles, etc, can be read as demonstrations that you are not a threat. Americans have to do that in almost all times and contexts.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#38

Post by sjfjsjdjwvwvc »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #23

I have a long history of trouble with intimacy and long-term relationships, and as a result, I live alone and rather isolated. I have a few friends on FB and others who I email on a regular basis, and I try to cultivate closeness with them as much as electronically possible. But many of my social interactions are based in commerce. So I'll go to a restaurant to eat, alone. I'll go grocery shopping, alone. And so the…

As someone who worked a long time in service (not in America, in the anecdotally much more socially cold Germany) I was friendly and welcoming to all customers (unless I had a really bad day for some reason, so about 95% of the time) and I always meant it.

It just makes your work much more fun and time pass faster than being sullen and distanced. It hs nothing to do with my wages being on the line, I literally had zero obligation to be nice to customers. But every once in a while I had a pleasant interaction and that made it worth the effort.

I would bet it’s the same for your crockery clerks. That kind of work is very boring and repetitive and social interaction is the only respite you get from it. Just something to keep in mind when you are feeling cynical about them greeting you friendly and so on.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#39

Post by twiss »

> when my friend Ann Kring pointedly commented, “Thank you for sharing,” after I had explained in great detail some convoluted story about my emotions

I cannot of course claim to know the intention of this person, but I have heard this phrase said ostensibly genuinely (to me it has the association of group therapy, though that might be due to popular media).

However, to me as a Dutch person, it comes across as devoid of meaning, a phrase that can be said if one didn't bother to listen or care to come up with any thought or more meaningful response. So, it doesn't surprise me that the author read it as sarcastic (although she might've been right, again I can't know).

The social expectation in the Netherlands to always come up with a response and share your opinion or thoughts, rather than just listening silently and nod (or say “Thank you for sharing,” which to me amounts to almost the same thing) can be criticized as well, of course. It can be a bit exhausting, at times. But, it also contributes to the feeling of having a genuine connection and conversation.

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