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Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

behavioralscientist.org

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Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#11

Post by dotnet00 »

I don't fully buy the points being made, I agree that emotions are cultured, but as someone from a different culture, I've felt that Americans are more "genuine".

My own culture is all about distrusting others and being very selective about what you reveal about yourself and paying close attention to material balance in social interactions so someone else isn't getting more out of the relationship than you. A point that came up last time I was visiting my home country was that my habit of thanking the cashier after finishing my transaction was a glaring giveaway that I was an outsider, and that I should be careful about it to avoid being taken advantage of.

In comparison, American culture has been very freeing, I can typically trust people to not be trying to stab me in the back, I don't have to worry as much about taking advantage of by friends, I can ask people to be honest about me and they will be, and so on.

There are a lot of little pleasantries with strangers that took time to become fluent at, but people you actually know seem to be just as honest as what the author describes the Dutch as being, just with a lot of initial padding like "please don't take this the wrong way".

The example given of being asked to dinner and responding bluntly with "I'm busy tomorrow" doesn't seem that rude to me, but to be fair, I am in a physics and engineering environment, neither groups of people being known for their social smoothness :)

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#12

Post by hiAndrewQuinn »

joecool1029 wrote: post #6

I wonder if the dutch history is why most new yorkers seem to be very direct. There are definitely different regions of America that pull the fake thing more than others (one example I can think of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bless_your_heart )

It's opportunity cost. New Yorkers making $300,000 feel the twinge of lost time much more acutely than, say, the average Minnesotan making $30,000.

Indeed, in most countries, you'll notice the dialect of the capital city of the prominent language contains a lot more clipped and shortened words than the rural dialects tend to. This happens here in Finland - Helsinkians speak a much more abbreviation heavy Finnish than the dairy farmers up in Pohjois-Pohjanmaa, which has sort of the equivalent of Finnish southern drawl.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#13

Post by BrandoElFollito »

> Thank you for dinner” felt to me as an act of distancing

Is this really? I am French so we are rather private (in the sense that friendship is something that takes time, and before that there are rather generic interactions). But if my best friend whom I adore and whatnot did a dinner for me I would thank him very much.

I wild be surprised if "thank you" is not used between friends in the Netherlands

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#14

Post by xhevahir »

Nevin1901 wrote: post #2

As someone who recently moved from The Netherlands to USA, I found this article to be really great at explaining the reason why many Europeans find Americans to be fake. I myself had experienced all of the social experiences the author talked about, and found myself confused as to what a "friend" was in The USA. I also find it very interesting how the author described emotions as cultured - not just something which w…

This article about Russian's habit of yelling is interesting: https://classical-russian-literature.blogspot.com/2020/07/th...

I haven't been to Russia but some of it reminds me of encounters I've had in Greece.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#15

Post by SoftTalker »

American living in America. I've encountered all types of people. Some are taciturn, some are very direct, some dance around the subject for fear of offending, some are excessively friendly. We're a mix of cultures and I don't think you can say that all or even most Americans have the same social/emotional tendencies.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#16

Post by technothrasher »

Nevin1901 wrote: post #2

As someone who recently moved from The Netherlands to USA, I found this article to be really great at explaining the reason why many Europeans find Americans to be fake. I myself had experienced all of the social experiences the author talked about, and found myself confused as to what a "friend" was in The USA. I also find it very interesting how the author described emotions as cultured - not just something which w…

Here's a cultural question I've been wondering since I visited Amsterdam as an American- I was walking along an up hill street in the evening, and I saw a young lady talking to her friends and smoking, with a baby in a stroller. The stroller started to roll down the hill slightly and she didn't seem to notice. It then picked up a little speed, so I moved to intercept it, and rolled it back up to her. When I delivered her child back to her she just looked at me with a slightly blank look, then gave a very quick barking laugh, and turned back to her friends. We didn't exchange any words. I moved on and went about my business, but to this day I have absolutely zero idea what her reaction meant .

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#17

Post by mpol »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #13

> Thank you for dinner” felt to me as an act of distancing Is this really? I am French so we are rather private (in the sense that friendship is something that takes time, and before that there are rather generic interactions). But if my best friend whom I adore and whatnot did a dinner for me I would thank him very much. I wild be surprised if "thank you" is not used between friends in the Netherlands

Yes, it can be used. Depending on different nuances and intonations, it can be considered polite and distancing, or authentic and meant for connecting.

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#19

Post by ks1723 »

floxy wrote: post #3
Nevin1901 wrote: post #2

As someone who recently moved from The Netherlands to USA, I found this article to be really great at explaining the reason why many Europeans find Americans to be fake. I myself had experienced all of the social experiences the author talked about, and found myself confused as to what a "friend" was in The USA. I also find it very interesting how the author described emotions as cultured - not just something which w…

Cultural differences aren't limited to international interactions either. Here's an interesting thing about exclamation points. Apparently there are (at least) two cultures of exclamation point usage in English. Apparently one culture uses them frequently as a marker of expressing general excitedness. The other culture sees them akin to yelling, which is appropriate only a small fraction of the time. https://news.yco…

Interestingly I became aware of a similar cultural difference regarding punctuation: I frequently use three dots ‚…‘ in more informal emails at the end of a sentence to indicate that I am not sure about something yet or still wondering about it. Like „I guess we could discuss this tomorrow…“ or „Yeah, I might be able to do this…“

Some month ago an Italian PhD student of mine (I’m from Germany) asked me if I was upset or mad at him. I had no idea why he was asking and was completely taken aback by this suggestion. But turns out, in Italy (at least the northern part of it), the three dots typically indicate that you are upset or at least impatient with the receiver.

I still wonder how many of my Italian collaborators I have sent strange impatient emails in the past…

Re: Americans are fake and the Dutch are rude (2022)

#20

Post by BiteCode_dev »

As a Frenchman, when I worked in the valley, people told me to tone it down, that I could come off as rude.

On my side, I wanted to slap those people calling others they barely knew "friends", overselling their lunch as "amazing", assuring an outcome with certainty, virtue signaling or refusing to say when something was completely wrong. It's like they were always in a tiny marketing process.

Eventually, I learned to smooth communication, and to appreciate their enthusiasm.

But it did take time.

Also I must confess I have an American filter permanently on, now. If something comes from the US, I just assume most of it is BS until proven otherwise.

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