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Htmx changes license to Zero-Clause BSD

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Re: Htmx changes license to Zero-Clause BSD

#61

Post by jabl »

logicprog wrote: post #49

The state of software licenses makes me a bit sad. On the one hand we have open source licenses like the MIT and Apache 2.0 licenses that give corporations free reign to enclose and exploit the software commons without any real limit or any requirement to give back to the things they are getting rich off of, and then on the other hand we have the GPL and LGPL licenses which are too aggressive and stringent, while als…

I like the MPL 2.0 and use it for some of my own software as it best seems to describe the outcome that I want (incorporate it into whatever you want, but please contribute improvements to the MPL licensed parts of the software back to upstream).

However, I also think it's fairly easy to circumvent for a hypothetical leech that just wants to use my code without contributing back any improvements. Namely just put the improvements into a separate proprietary file, and insert stubs in the MPL licensed file calling the proprietary code. Taking this argument to the extreme, one should use either something extremely permissive like 0BSD or then go full AGPLv3, as everything inbetween is to an extent possible to circumvent without too much trouble (GPL "condoms" and all that).

Re: Htmx changes license to Zero-Clause BSD

#62

Post by ameliaquining »

simonw wrote: post #37

I hadn't seen Zero-Clause BSD before: https://opensource.org/license/0bsd/ > Note: Despite its name, Zero-Clause BSD is an alteration of the ISC license, and is not textually derived from licenses in the BSD family. Zero-Clause BSD was originally approved under the name “Free Public License 1.0.0”. Anyone seen a good write-up of the tradeoffs for this license? I like how short and simple it is.

It's appropriate for software designed for use cases where an attribution requirement would be inconvenient or otherwise undesirable. For example, https://github.com/microsoft/tslib uses it, because that library is automatically included in any TypeScript program that uses downleveling, so if it had an attribution requirement then that requirement would apply to every program written in TypeScript, which nobody wants. (GCC and LLVM do something similar with their special runtime-library exceptions to the GPL and Apache License, respectively, but tslib lives in a separate repository from the rest of TypeScript and so could easily just get a separate license.)

Re: Htmx changes license to Zero-Clause BSD

#63

Post by logicprog »

jabl wrote: post #61
logicprog wrote: post #49

The state of software licenses makes me a bit sad. On the one hand we have open source licenses like the MIT and Apache 2.0 licenses that give corporations free reign to enclose and exploit the software commons without any real limit or any requirement to give back to the things they are getting rich off of, and then on the other hand we have the GPL and LGPL licenses which are too aggressive and stringent, while als…

I like the MPL 2.0 and use it for some of my own software as it best seems to describe the outcome that I want (incorporate it into whatever you want, but please contribute improvements to the MPL licensed parts of the software back to upstream). However, I also think it's fairly easy to circumvent for a hypothetical leech that just wants to use my code without contributing back any improvements. Namely just put the…

> However, I also think it's fairly easy to circumvent for a hypothetical leech that just wants to use my code without contributing back any improvements. Namely just put the improvements into a separate proprietary file, and insert stubs in the MPL licensed file calling the proprietary code.

Yeah this is the work around that came to mind when I first read the MPL, and it's what I had in mind when I said it isn't perfect. I'm using it for a current game engine project I'm working on, and will probably use it for any of my other work moving forward, but I definitely think it isn't the end of license history — there is still a lot more improvement that could be made. I was just giving it as an example of what I think the correct direction is, in contrast to the current extremes. I think it's where more work on licenses should go.

Re: Htmx changes license to Zero-Clause BSD

#65

Post by njharman »

p8donald wrote: post #46

If I contribute code to an open source project under the BSD 2-Clause license and don't sign any contributor license agreement, can the maintainer relicense the code without getting my permission?

Sure, anyone can do anything. It would be up to you (and hopefully a lawyer) to then sue them and let judge/jury decide. Or, convince authorities that some criminal law was violated and they should investigate.

Both of which are hard and/or expensive. So most rely on public shame. Out them on social media and foment outrage.

Re: Htmx changes license to Zero-Clause BSD

#66

Post by dan15 »

internet101010 wrote: post #22
saghm wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - I then posted the "offer" i got from MSFT (some credit card thing) https://fxtwitter.com/htmx_org/status/1746895016256328079 Know your worth; don't sell out for anything under 20% cash back at Bed, Bath & Beyond!

Only applicable to private label items.

I used one of their 20% off coupons for a Simplehuman bin a while back (one of the ones with recycling on the left and trash on the right).

Having said that, I don't think they actually take coupons any more. It stopped when all the physical stores closed. The offer here is a cash back offer, where you pay the full price then another company (like TopCashback, Rakuten, apparently Microsoft too) gives you 10% cash back.

Re: Htmx changes license to Zero-Clause BSD

#68

Post by endisneigh »

macintux wrote: post #47
endisneigh wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The past mongodb issues don’t seem relevant unless they persist today, no?

Reputational damage is difficult to recover from.

That’s not relevant to the question of “what’s wrong with mongodb?” It seems folks just regurgitate memes without any understanding of the current product.

Re: Htmx changes license to Zero-Clause BSD

#70

Post by somat »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #52
giancarlostoro wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the reason i did all this is for the lols Do the lols while you still can, the Trust and Safety departments at major social media companies want to extinguish funny. Everyone who does even a smidgen of memeing on the internet knows what happens when you post images of large spiders. People start talking about burning things down, like the entire building its inside of, etc. Someone posted a video where a little gir…

Meanwhile someone was using my late brother's name and face(in a list of supposed "vaccine casualties". My brother died from heart failure after lifelong illness, age 39) to spread vile antivaxx/protrump stuff. All reports denied. It was glaringly obvious she was a paid misinfo troll.

Just a question, I don't pay much attention to politics, are the two related? are anti vaxers pro trump? The vaccine was developed on Trumps watch.

I figured it was just like any other boss, takes all the credit if it works. desperately tries to shift blame if it does not.

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