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AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

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Re: AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

#41
post #5

Cynical view: without new regulation in the area of AI, it will reduce the value of labor in many domains and completely eliminate the need for it in many others. Profits will go to companies like OpenAI, unemployment will rise and people will be left to fend for themselves, and it's exactly what's going to happen.

How can there be profits without wage income to buy the output? The paradox of productivity will kick in and prices will plummet.

In some industries, prices will follow wealthier people as more profit will come from gouging those on the lucky side now much larger wealth divide, and the middle class will vanish.

You saw an example of this in ecommerce during the pandemic's economic upheaval. Luxury goods recorded increased sales, as did bottom of the barrel retailers. Services and items in the comfortable middle class we all deserve suffered decreases.

Re: AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

#42

AI runs on electricity, which we can produce a joule directly of for much cheaper than we can produce a joule of food to feed a human on. This is a fundamental consequence of thermodynamics. It will eventually require us to ask ourselves whether we are willing to arbitrarily prioritize our own species over the cheaper to run alternative. We human beings, however, have both the first mover advantage and a natural inst…

This is such a bizarre post. Tools are built to serve man. AI is just another tool. When mechanization replaced human labor there were no questions about prioritizing machines over people. This is no different. You have a distorted framing of the situation.

> Tools are built to serve man. AI is just another tool.

This logic reads as an attempted proof that no man-made machine or technology can ever possibly be net harmful. That seems like an argument easily punctured.

"This is no different" is also a leap, because humans have a large but finite number of ways to be of service to each other. Mechanization augmented one of them, which shifted more value onto the remainders (mostly intellectual and emotional work). If AI can replace the latter, it's not implausible that this really will broadly displace the majority of human labor skills without growing new value areas, similar to how mechanization replaced horses.

Re: AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

#43
post #29
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly do you think you can learn at that point, that'd give you market value?

AI

Honest question - if AI will take over software engineering, why wouldn't it also make AI experts obsolete?

Re: AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

#44
post #5

Cynical view: without new regulation in the area of AI, it will reduce the value of labor in many domains and completely eliminate the need for it in many others. Profits will go to companies like OpenAI, unemployment will rise and people will be left to fend for themselves, and it's exactly what's going to happen.

How can there be profits without wage income to buy the output? The paradox of productivity will kick in and prices will plummet.

[deleted]

Re: AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

#45
post #5

Cynical view: without new regulation in the area of AI, it will reduce the value of labor in many domains and completely eliminate the need for it in many others. Profits will go to companies like OpenAI, unemployment will rise and people will be left to fend for themselves, and it's exactly what's going to happen.

Realistic view: Unemployment is actually at an all time low despite centuries of industrialization, automation, etc. AI technology is becoming a commodity at a rapid rate. OpenAI has some nice data moat but their tech is being copied left right and center and much of what they do has been replicated successfully by others; including some open source projects. I don't see OpenAI end up with all the profit here. AI is…

Yep. AI passed us in chess decades ago, and today there are more people making money playing chess than there were back then.

Re: AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

#46
> one of the things that sets AI apart is its ability to impact high-skilled jobs

Am I the only one that fundamentally disagree with this? AI rather impacts low-skilled white collar jobs. Or the "low skill" part of a high skill job. For a dev one example is AI is good at writing the boilerplate for you.

Re: AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realistic view: Unemployment is actually at an all time low despite centuries of industrialization, automation, etc. AI technology is becoming a commodity at a rapid rate. OpenAI has some nice data moat but their tech is being copied left right and center and much of what they do has been replicated successfully by others; including some open source projects. I don't see OpenAI end up with all the profit here. AI is…

That 'unemployment is at an all time low' statistic is disingenious, one needs to include the sibling statistics that 'under employment is currently at the highest it has ever been." People are working crap jobs that merely maintain, they are not in their careers of education, they are in those "bullshit jobs" that abuse them.

There are stats for that too. What do they show?

Re: AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a bizarre post. Tools are built to serve man. AI is just another tool. When mechanization replaced human labor there were no questions about prioritizing machines over people. This is no different. You have a distorted framing of the situation.

> Tools are built to serve man. AI is just another tool. This logic reads as an attempted proof that no man-made machine or technology can ever possibly be net harmful. That seems like an argument easily punctured. "This is no different" is also a leap, because humans have a large but finite number of ways to be of service to each other. Mechanization augmented one of them, which shifted more value onto the remainder…

> humans have a large but finite number of ways to be of service to each other.

I’m not so sure this is finite. My entire career is a service job that didn’t exist two generations ago.

Re: AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

#49
post #43
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI

Honest question - if AI will take over software engineering, why wouldn't it also make AI experts obsolete?

At that time, there still will be a "A100/H100/successor replacement specialist" probably necessary. Or any other variant of a data centre hardware admin

Re: AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

#50
post #5

Cynical view: without new regulation in the area of AI, it will reduce the value of labor in many domains and completely eliminate the need for it in many others. Profits will go to companies like OpenAI, unemployment will rise and people will be left to fend for themselves, and it's exactly what's going to happen.

How can there be profits without wage income to buy the output? The paradox of productivity will kick in and prices will plummet.

The short answer is because markets are not monolithic.

You can have all kinds of price and market distortion as long as it’s a small group of people or a group of people that has a significant wealth effect over those that do not have it.

Just like you have services and products specifically for multimillionaires and billionaires, where you can get things that nobody else has, and in many cases even aware exist, you can see that happen for broader parts of society without having a deleterious effect on the overall survival of the human species.

It’s just market specialization, and we haven’t seen it with commodities yet, but we could see it with commodities in the future, and that would really change the game if commodities become available, only to those who are inside of a small pool of people that are making all the money with artificial intelligence, and the rest of us have no access to it. That is a very real possibility.

When sufficient profit motive exists to serve commodity markets for small numbers of people instead of the broad collective, a wage/price acceleration condition could be had which we haven’t seen before where more-and-more resources are locked up by a smaller and smaller but wealthier and wealthier small part of the population, essentially creating a wage / price spiral but inside of a wealth effect. Think of it is the impact of capital, and you begin to see why well concentration could lead to commodity concentration, in ways that we’ve never seen before. We have some examples that are similar to this happening right now, with the consolidation of industry, after industry by private equity, which is unprecedented.

AI has the possibility of accelerating these trends.

Just look:

https://theconversation.com/as-the-billionaires-gather-at-da...

We have seen this happen many times, where broad and cheap food groups become speciality food groups and product categories, rise in price as they become popular with the smaller wealthier elite groups (think of ox tails, bluefin tuna, certain purebred dogs, fine wines and cheeses, etc) they become out-of-reach to the general society.

We haven’t seen this for commodities but there is little reason that it couldn’t also come into effect in broad commodity markets with automation and AI remove the need for wage classes.

Ai is the automation of intellectual work, but also the ground technology for advanced robotics and automation powered by AI. The impact will be more profound than anyone here applying 20th century economic theory and colloquialisms really understands. The potential for interruptions is profound, and AGI and it’s ongoing improvements is very likely like a new nuclear threat.

People like to apply the logic of the wave theory of Internet, mobile, radio, television, etc. you can go all the way back to the weaving machine, the printing press, and the cotton gin.

The real question is whether or not this time is different. You know everything is not different until the time that it actually is and when you start thinking about building a digital brain, you’re not just talking about creating another transformational technology revolution, you’re talking about replicating the creature that actually creates those technology waves. That’s slightly different and deserves a little more consideration many of the people talking about this AI revolution tend to give it. Instead of creating something new that changes society, we’re creating something to replace the thing that creates those technology tools and waves in the first place. Something like us.

Like all technology revolutions, the resulting profits and productivity can be used for the uplift of humanity and for social good, or it can be used for selfish motivations. And to be fair, it could be used for selfish motivations, and end up benefiting all of humanity if the system allows for those selfish motivations to benefit the larger society. But that comes down to wise governance and careful shepherding by those in power. Gene Roddenbury is prescient as always.

So, in short, you either end up with amplification, like you’re talking about, which creates a stratification between the classes of benefit from AI technology, and the classes of those who were left behind, were you see a general transformation of the overall society that brings everyone into a new era of productivity that changes everything on earth as a paradigm-style transformation. Which model applies? The question is this: is it different to build a new machine or a machine that dreams up and makes new machines?

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