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Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

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Re: Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

#61

Post by natch »

mc32 wrote: post #29
jwr wrote: post #14

So much wrong information in the comments here (or, rather, lack of information, because most comments are ill-informed). See for example https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-... for a good debunking of many common myths (good showing here). Yes, one should not accept the all-rosy picture of EVs being all-clean and ideal. But my EV a) is 4-5 times more efficient overall in converting energy int…

One thing EVs need to address is the cost of repairs. Yes an ICE engine needs regular maintenance, but currently that cost savings in an EV is offset by the larger repair costs as well as wait times for repairs (due to parts availability, like dearth of OEM parts, like you can’t go down to NAPA and get parts.

What repairs?

Re: Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

#62

Post by grecy »

logifail wrote: post #54
grecy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah but do they calculate your personal time value in sitting at a charging station for an hour? An even more interesting calculation would be how much you are shortening your life by standing at a gas pump inhaling carcinogens. Not to mention breathing the exhaust of all the vehicles around you. LA has some of the worst air quality in the developed world [1]. Do you want to live there and breath that everyday? [1…

> how much you are shortening your life by standing at a gas pump inhaling carcinogens [Full disclosure: worked for years in a chemistry lab where we had "proper" risks, including but not limited to real carcinogens] CDC: "there is no evidence that exposure to gasoline causes cancer in humans"[0] Petrol and diesel are easy to avoid inhaling, not least because they both stink. It's trivial to avoid any potential risk…

That link you posted reads almost criminally negligent.

"There is not enough information available to determine if gasoline causes birth defects or affects reproduction"

My god, spend some time in a remote aboriginal community in the 80s and 90s before OPAL fuel was invented and you would have had all the information you'll ever need.

There's a reason they spent millions developing OPAL, and why regular unleaded gasoline (petrol) is illegal in virtually all aboriginal communities.

Re: Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

#63

Post by jemmyw »

ttymck wrote: post #31
jwr wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> except for extreme long range trips I'm writing this comment having just driven about 2000km-long trip with an EV :-) In cold climate (-5C). It's not my first long trip, either. My key observations (some were surprising to me): 1. You should expect to travel slower, as you will need to make breaks for charging, and the EV world presents an overly-rosy view of ranges. In a long trip, you use the battery from 10% to…

> In my case rough estimates are a stop every 2h or 250km... It's not a big deal. Especially if you can find a place to charge where you will also eat or drink. As a huge proponent of EVs, I have to imagine a major chunk of the population would disagree with you. Most people (in the US, at least) aren't leisurely taking road trips. They are in a hurry, trying not to eat up all 3 weeks of PTO with the annual family ro…

I've done a few long road trips and 2 hours is about the max my kids would go anyway between breaks. Not that I've done it in an EV.

Re: Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

#64

Post by dzhiurgis »

natch wrote: post #59
mglz wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*Thank you* So much hearsay from people who never really used an EV. Yes, there are drawbacks. But except for extreme long range trips EVs are perfectly usable while being more energy efficient and less prone to breaking down.

EVs are fantastic for long road trips. Unless you buy your EV from a legacy automaker in which case there is no good charging network.

Let’s not forget crappy drivers assist

I’m on bus right now to pick up my ICE vehicle from repair shop. Will need to drive back home for 45 mines MYSELF!

Re: Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

#65

Post by thefz »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #46
thefz wrote: post #43

No, I still won't buy an EV. EVs are being forced down or throat to, again, have customers make another buy in the name of the earth. Tax the fuck out of China, India, USA for being the biggest polluters, then tax the fuck out of carbon emissions for the largest emitters. Then you tax the fuck out of SUVs and useless large vehicles. Only then you can go after the combustion engine, which is at its peak efficiency and…

How do you impose taxes on other countries without taking them over first? Sounds like more trouble than it’s worth. It’s like getting Mexico to pay for a wall the USA is building. China and India have way over a billion people each and still pollute less than the USA on a per capita basis. If you want them to take responsibility for moral reasons, your moral high ground isn’t very high.

Yeah like ostracizing trade towards a foreign country has never been done.

Re: Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

#66

Post by bdcravens »

chrismcb wrote: post #55
bdcravens wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drove from Houston to San Diego and back in my EV6. It wasn't bad, but in the interests of disclosure, I'll point out some of the caveats (some of which may not apply for those using the Tesla network) 1. Our trip was on major interstates (I10 and I8) 2. Not every charging station had full speed 3. Charging stations weren't so close that I could reliably skip one 4. Range goes way down on open freeways (wind resist…

Seems to me like you proved the haters correct. That is a significant cost on time and money, to recharge. To me this is the biggest downside to an EV. Not too mention, of I rub it off juice, the car pretty much has to be towed. Will this problems improve? Sure, but until then...

Not entirely. I proved the "good luck when you can't find a charger and have to tow your car" haters wrong. We've moved from the realm of impossible into possible, but we're just not in the convenient territory yet. (akin to the lifecycle of depending on mobile Internet)

Re: Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

#67

Post by [deleted] »

natch wrote: post #61
mc32 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing EVs need to address is the cost of repairs. Yes an ICE engine needs regular maintenance, but currently that cost savings in an EV is offset by the larger repair costs as well as wait times for repairs (due to parts availability, like dearth of OEM parts, like you can’t go down to NAPA and get parts.

What repairs?

[deleted]

Re: Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

#68

Post by greenyoda »

grecy wrote: post #62
logifail wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how much you are shortening your life by standing at a gas pump inhaling carcinogens [Full disclosure: worked for years in a chemistry lab where we had "proper" risks, including but not limited to real carcinogens] CDC: "there is no evidence that exposure to gasoline causes cancer in humans"[0] Petrol and diesel are easy to avoid inhaling, not least because they both stink. It's trivial to avoid any potential risk…

That link you posted reads almost criminally negligent. "There is not enough information available to determine if gasoline causes birth defects or affects reproduction" My god, spend some time in a remote aboriginal community in the 80s and 90s before OPAL fuel was invented and you would have had all the information you'll ever need. There's a reason they spent millions developing OPAL, and why regular unleaded gaso…

According to Wikipedia, the injuries from gasoline in these communities resulted from deliberately using it as an inhalant (to get intoxicated). This can hardly be compared with standing at a gas pump outdoors for five minutes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opal_(fuel)

From that article: "Opal is a variety of low-aromatic 91 RON petrol developed in 2005 by BP Australia to combat the rising use of petrol as an inhalant in remote Indigenous Australian communities. ... Typical unleaded petrol contains 25% aromatics, such as toluene, ortho-xylene and para-xylene. In contrast, Opal contains only 5% aromatics, which means that it has less of the toluene and other solvents which produce the intoxication (or "high") that inhalant users are seeking."

Re: Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

#69

Post by yumraj »

mc32 wrote: post #29
jwr wrote: post #14

So much wrong information in the comments here (or, rather, lack of information, because most comments are ill-informed). See for example https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-... for a good debunking of many common myths (good showing here). Yes, one should not accept the all-rosy picture of EVs being all-clean and ideal. But my EV a) is 4-5 times more efficient overall in converting energy int…

One thing EVs need to address is the cost of repairs. Yes an ICE engine needs regular maintenance, but currently that cost savings in an EV is offset by the larger repair costs as well as wait times for repairs (due to parts availability, like dearth of OEM parts, like you can’t go down to NAPA and get parts.

EVs or only Teslas?

I have a suspicion that that is true primarily for Teslas.

I have a Toyota plug-in hybrid, which theoretically is an EVs as well as an ICE car, and its repair/maintainance is similar to that of an ICE.

The high cost of Tesla repair is due to their vertical integration, perhaps limited capacity devoted to spares and monopoly over who repairs (max rent selling from repair). EVs should be cheaper to repair and maintain.

Re: Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

#70

Post by grecy »

greenyoda wrote: post #68
grecy wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That link you posted reads almost criminally negligent. "There is not enough information available to determine if gasoline causes birth defects or affects reproduction" My god, spend some time in a remote aboriginal community in the 80s and 90s before OPAL fuel was invented and you would have had all the information you'll ever need. There's a reason they spent millions developing OPAL, and why regular unleaded gaso…

According to Wikipedia, the injuries from gasoline in these communities resulted from deliberately using it as an inhalant (to get intoxicated). This can hardly be compared with standing at a gas pump outdoors for five minutes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opal_(fuel) From that article: "Opal is a variety of low-aromatic 91 RON petrol developed in 2005 by BP Australia to combat the rising use of petrol as an inhalan…

I'm not comparing it to standing at a gas pump. I'm talking about this statement on the CDC site you linked:

"There is not enough information available to determine if gasoline causes birth defects or affects reproduction"

Borderline criminal.

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