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Lies We Tell Kids

paulgraham.com

411–420 of 433 posts

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#411
wow that was the most insightful thing i have read in a while. I know that there are lot of lies that are told to kids. I lived a life where i was constantly lied to and I knew that I was being lied to. I just didn't mention that I knew.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#412
as usual the essay shows paul grahams brilliance, but this essay seemed to end up as little more than an explanation for why we lie to kids. It ended up feeling very supportive of lying to children, which i certainly don't believe was mr. graham's goal. Obviously some lies are for protecting a child. But i cant believe he ACTUALLY supported the idea of telling a kid that turkey wanted to die. its because of those kinds of lies that i completely ignored my parents after the age of 12. I COULD NOT TRUST THEM. Which is to bad because they probably had some legitimate advise during those years. but due to my sanity i didn't even listen to them anymore. Basically it seemed like you said "parents lie to kids because they are philosophically lazy and avoid meaningful thought at all cost like 95% of humans do until they die. Of course actually trying to talk with a kid about a complex issue requires as much mental work as talking to another adult about a complex issue. Of course your average person isn't going to do either. so the basic problem here isnt that were lying to kids (as you explained a few of those lies are good) but root problem is that youre average person is addicted to ignorance and fears a little philosophy more than anything else. and of course the children are being raised to be just a knowledge-fearing as their parents are. I suggest you right an essay trying to convince people (adults,everybody) that knowledge, truth, and logic ARE NOT BAD. Because if theres anything thing that seems to be taboo among the common man its learning. If we could convince the world that learning was a good thing so many problems would be solved.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#413
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That self-deception is exactly what I was getting at. I have no doubt that many have these discussions but it's so much easier to lie during them. I'd argue it's different in kind from science or history exactly because there's no independent record that can be consulted. Indeed, I can't see many parents lying to their kids about science or history because it would be so straight-forward to identify the lie. No, the…

ah, in that case I do agree - and we're talking about something that huge swathes of philosophers, psychologists, social scientists and miscellaneous intellectuals have spent their lives arguing about. That isn't to deny that a pg contribution could be illuminating!

I recently found this forum and I am very happy I did. It is nice to see a threads of discussion end in agreement. That doesn't seem possible in many other places.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#414
I don't find this essay controversial, just insightful. I can see there are places where you are exaggerated for effect etc, but overall, the essay rings true. Am I missing something :-)?

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#415

  I believe strongly in a set of "semi-religious" axioms (from advaita vedanta) that keeps me functional, productive and happy. I strive to be a good son, colleague, friend, etc but within the boundaries of this framework, it makes me happy and I believe it keeps the people I come on contact with happy and well too.
This essay leads to a question, though:

1. Would you rather have a world view that is as close to the truth as possible and live a life of angst and striving? (to change the various inequalities and other issues with the world).

(or)

2. Would you believe the appropriate "lies" (as per your "belief system") and live life happily?

3. How would the world change as a result of your choice? Its a cyclic dependancy here.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#416
"You shouldn't put the blame on one parent, because divorce is never only one person's fault. [8] Really? When a man runs off with his secretary, is it always partly his wife's fault?"

YES, and for TWO reasons: 1. If a man (or woman) runs away with another woman (or man) it is because the primary relationship has a fault and a severe one. No person, male or female, gives up a relationship just like that. I am not talking about a "one night stand" which might come out of a situation, sensation, ..., because that will never endanger a relationship. But if a relationship is so weak that one partner seeks love in a different person, it is because he cannot get it in his primary relationship any more, although he would like to. 2. If the woman (or man) that is left behind is no more willing to recover the old relationship it is certainly her or his fault as well. Someone who really loves her or his partner is always able to get him or her back. There is an old saying that the lover has never a chance against the married partner and that is true. Actually, I know all this from own experience, not from theory !

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#417
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Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#418

I hope I have your kind permission for doing this: I love your essay so much that I would like the german speaking community to be able to read it too. I therefore translated it to german and published it on my own blog here: http://www.heiniger-net.ch/archives/167

May I kindly ask you to correct the link to the german translation on the main article page? It currently links to http://www.heiniger-net.ch/archives/167/langswitch_lang/de, but that link doesn't work anymore. Please link to http://www.heiniger-net.ch/archives/167 as indicated in my original post. I changed the way my blog handles multiple languages.

Thank you very much.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#419
May I kindly ask you to correct the link to the german translation on the main article page? It currently links to http://www.heiniger-net.ch/archives/167/langswitch_lang/de, but that link doesn't work anymore. Please link to http://www.heiniger-net.ch/archives/167 as indicated in my original post. I changed the way my blog handles multiple languages. Thank you very much.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#420
I enjoyed reading this. I specifically searched for anything pertaining to "when parents lie to kids", and this popped up. I do not have children (by choice), and I have completed a master in education, so I have researched learning theory. I see my sister and her husband lying to their children, and I abhor such practice; children are merely young adults who need to learn efficiently and effectively, so that they may comprehend what it takes to survive independently. I see your point about keeping reality from children until they are learned enough to make their own determinations about when enough is enough with respect to education, yet I still believe that, regardless of the measure of hardened reality to which they are exposed, they are ultimately responsible for their own learning motivation, save for the very early prompts that parents are responsible for instilling in them during the behaviorism years.

I have believed for many years that lying to children about Santa Claus, among other things, causes children to distrust parents and other adults, which is likely not intended by parents, but which is a very real effect of misguiding their concepts by deceit so early. To effectuate a lifelong positive result, parents and teachers should strive to ALWAYS tell the truth, so that the child (young adult) will NOT be shocked later in life by simple, inevitable realities such as death, disease, or inconsistencies in human behaviors. The truth is ALWAYS the best policy at any age. It is too bad that parents are so selfish as to hope or believe that they are doing their children favors by false lights, false hopes, and false expressions. If the truth sets us free, then what are parents doing when they lie, but creating a virtual prison for their offspring?

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