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Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

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Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#191

Post by t0bia_s »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #131
j4yav wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we are surrounded by people not doing that, and not even through any fault of their own for the most part. They are wired into an endless machine that trades dopamine hits for their money. Children are wired in before they even have a chance to resist.

The Extremely Online crowd’s influence is waning. Twitter is widely mocked as a cesspool of conversation. Facebook is seen as antiquated. Instagram and TikTok are the current darlings but they seem to have less of an iron grip than the OG social networks. The future is probably not another winner-take-all network. We’ve tried enough of those. The future is probably smaller networks where users self-select into them b…

You mean Discord (interest, hobbies) and family chat channels on various platforms?

Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#192

Post by kmoser »

logiduck wrote: post #132

I'm not sure how this will resonate here, but this past year my interests in side projects sharply declined. For reference I am early 30s, married no kids. Up until now I used to work on 2-3 large side projects a year, diving deep into them obsessed with sleepless nights working. Now with LLMs it just feels kind of like whats the point? Either my work will be consumed by an LLM to train and get tossed aside or i shou…

> with software there is this notion of something being "optimal" but with music there is no optimal. Even the highest level artists are not satisfied with their work. The music is always above you.

The same holds for software developers, or at least (IMO) the good ones: they always want to refine their code, or at least know where it could be further refined. The best of those just know when to stop refining and move on.

Musicians also strive for the optimal performance: they continually practice to get better. Most are smart enough to know they will never be perfect, just as a good engineer knows there is no perfect code (Knuth notwithstanding). But that doesn't stop them from trying.

Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#193

Post by ilrwbwrkhv »

I just want to say that if you get a chance, go to the underbelly of the tech world like the hacking / piracy / emulator forums and scenes.

Tech has been made into this sanitized version of what tech was when we were growing up (over 30 folks) and I think it needs to be discovered because so much of our current experience with tech has been this pale, tasteless, flat designed pasty.

But the joy a lot of us felt with tech because we could tinker and hack things to our heart's content still exists. It just requires a bit more effort to find it these days. And those communities I mentioned up above are the easiest entry points to that whole world.

But the commercialized tech world of the Leetcodes and the Faangs, ya that will make the brightest eyed techie jaded in 10 yrs.

Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#194

Post by t0bia_s »

j7ake wrote: post #183
granshaw wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One question I’ve set out to answer is: what would I do if I were fired tomorrow? Understood that not everyone is in the position to switch to lower paying careers, start over, etc - but if you have some leash, what WOULD you do if you were fired tomorrow? (And I don’t mean short term like take a vacation then find another tech job - mean longer term like what kind of job will you be looking for next, or business to…

The ideal answer is: "If I got fired tomorrow, I would be doing mostly the same work as before, but maybe less meetings and admin duties." Careers that fit this answer: artists, writers, musicians, mathematicians, scientists (those who lean more towards theory).

As an freelance artist for 9 years I can say that you have different type of challenges.

Founding usefulness in your work means everyday questions about balance between stable income and making actually new, innovative, non-trending things. Free market have unlimited possibilities, but making art for money is not my motivation to do art.

Poor artists are real and I slowly understand why. If your passion is creativity, priorities are different, which makes hard to pay your bills, but in same time let you go deeper of meaning. Well... It's difficult to describe it actually.

Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#195

Post by docmars »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #37

Wow, I just wanted to say thanks a lot for posting this. I'm in a very similar boat. I was always very focused and goal-oriented in my younger days - a bit of a workaholic but generally enjoyed working hard. A number of changes since the pandemic have left me feeling very similar to you: 1. Like tons of other people, I re-evaluated my relationship with work during the pandemic. To be honest, it wasn't easy. I think a…

I resonate with this -- I've noticed a pattern of big tech companies using their power (and prowess) to regulate in the tech space more, limit what users can do, advertise more, force dark patterns on their customers, and make puzzling decisions that rob the excitement they used to bring to the table of the past.

They still make great new / updated products in a few areas, but it also seems like they take just as much as they give, these days. Whether it's changes to pricing models (Amazon Prime Video ad-free extra charges), or Google's notorious penchant for killing their own products (or features), or Microsoft's continuous push to get Edge in front of Windows users at almost any cost.

Or Apple only offering their high-end MacBooks with Touch Bars, rather than physical function keys before they finally fixed everything with the M1 series almost 4 years later -- 4 years of Touch Bar hell, or else suffer using a low-end laptop that isn't capable of the demanding workflows your job requires along with the fact that you're a power user who needs real function keys and (gasp!) a physical escape key to work efficiently on the go, like me.

These companies really seem to be resting on their laurels and toying with customers now, to see how annoying they can be. And what's worse is, we've grown to rely on their products because they happen to build our operating systems and hardware in many cases. Bigger changes to these can have devastating effects and these companies don't seem to understand the responsibility they have to move towards creating a positive, exciting experience for customers while leaving alone the things that work really well. All rather than sowing doubt with a lot of side decisions that make people unhappy ultimately.

Death by a thousand cuts, it really starts to erode confidence in any of them, no matter what they release that should be exciting.

Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#196

Post by geraldtan »

This period of doing nothing is termed the "neutral zone" by Ritvik Carvalho (^1).

> "We need not feel defensive about this apparently unproductive time-out at turning points in our lives, for the neutral zone is meant to be a moratorium from the conventional activity of our everyday existence. In the apparently aimless activity of our time alone, we are doing important inner business.", Transitions by William Bridges.

Your post resonated with me deeply. I quit my job in April 2023 to spend 2 years doing nothing "productive". Although I was doing well at work, I lost the hustle. The flame of curiosity seemed to have gone out. I wondered what happened to my past self who was constantly preoccupied with different interests and hobbies.

I thought that traveling would give me some fulfillment. Yet, traveling for the past 7 months left me unfulfilled. I realized the real journey was inward: rediscovering my passions and interests. It's difficult to do that while carrying baggage from your current job.

Here's some further reading below if you're interested. Don't hesitate to reach out, I'm curious to learn what you've done to rediscover your interests and curiosities, and I'm more than happy to share my learnings.

1) https://ritvikcarvalho.substack.com/p/career-transitions-and...

2) The Pathless Path by Paul Millerd

3) https://arc.net/l/quote/qmbdiccg

Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#197

Post by cookiengineer »

I am somewhat working on my own workflow. I have a lot of problems with the mental workload of external task and the sheer amount of things that are left to do. For example, having to remind myself to reschedule tasks because I didn't have the time as initially planned is very hard for me.

All other task planners never seem to be made for wrong estimations and the iterative evaluation of underestimated complexities for whatever reason. Nobody can predict the future so why should we be able to plan tasks ahead of time correctly?

Conflicting things in real life are hard to keep track of for me, too - (e.g. having to take your dog to the doctor, buying groceries, or cleaning up the household) and all task planning tools that I have tried never reduce the mental workload for me, because there's still the maintenance part of keeping your whiteboard/calendar up to date once anything goes wrong. And it always does.

That's why I took the last couple days to start to work on my own tool, agenda: the idea for this tool is that the app recommends you what to work on while still being able to keep track of conflicting tasks, with the idea that it adapts over time to your personal missed estimations of how long a task takes.

[1] https://github.com/cookiengineer/agenda

Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#198

Post by gifvenut »

fasterik wrote: post #133
reactordev wrote: post #6

If you find yourself thinking “this is all for nothing”, you’d be correct. You can’t take any of this crap with you when you pass. You do what makes you happy. What makes you happy? Searching for external validation of a pat on the back for a job well done is not what makes one happy. Take a moment, pause, just be, focus on your happiness and what that means to you . Stop comparing yourself to others. Stop trying to…

The problem isn't work per se, it's our attitudes toward work and the projects that we choose to work on. "Do what makes you happy" is a cliche that we all accept, but if you think about it, it's actually a very self-centered and egoistic way of deciding what to do. If we used different heuristics, like do what's best for your family/community/world, it might lead to very different answers than doing what makes you h…

It’s just semantics. Helping others makes me happy.

Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#199

Post by pauby »

Sajarin wrote: post #178
reactordev wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“This is a step in the right direction but it is still wrong” You are wrong in suggesting I’m wrong. There isn’t any wrong. If you believe what you say, you would understand that and strip “wrong” from your vocabulary. There is only a way. There are many ways. The one I described was mine. The universe does not recognize your black and white thinking.

I mean this doesn’t really mean anything. There is a right view and a wrong view, and of course you can make incremental steps towards right views. Don’t get so attached to your own opinions, that’s a form of clinging.

> Don’t get so attached to your own opinions, that’s a form of clinging.

Ironically, this is precisely what you're doing.

Re: Ask HN: Who else is working on nothing?

#200

Post by kirso »

granshaw wrote: post #152
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #37

Wow, I just wanted to say thanks a lot for posting this. I'm in a very similar boat. I was always very focused and goal-oriented in my younger days - a bit of a workaholic but generally enjoyed working hard. A number of changes since the pandemic have left me feeling very similar to you: 1. Like tons of other people, I re-evaluated my relationship with work during the pandemic. To be honest, it wasn't easy. I think a…

One question I’ve set out to answer is: what would I do if I were fired tomorrow? Understood that not everyone is in the position to switch to lower paying careers, start over, etc - but if you have some leash, what WOULD you do if you were fired tomorrow? (And I don’t mean short term like take a vacation then find another tech job - mean longer term like what kind of job will you be looking for next, or business to…

This is such a powerful question (another version of it, what would you do if you wouldn't have to worry about money). Sometime ago I tried to answer it and realised that I don't know. It sparked anxiety, meaning I've been doing something for such a long time 15+ years now without knowing what really my end goal is and why I am doing that.

Whatever its called, zombie or auto/robo mode, the unintentional living, its freaking scary because in most cases if you remove the work identity from a person, there will be a sad shallow shell of a person left.

On a bright side, its never too late. I started actually putting the money to use to create experiences (hiking in Taiwan, diving in Thailand, paragliding in Turkey). Starting to write and build products (finally learning to code for the sake of building something simple and useful instead of setting up kubernetes).

That kind of existence gave me energy, although I do have melancholic nostalgia about former days of building startups and working in a team to get to an exit. It all seem like a war story I will be telling people in my 50s, how I moved countries without knowing anyone, joined a company that got to $50m ARR, grew to 100 people and became profitable ever since.

The work identity we have is a interesting phenomenon, despite feeling happy in life, I do miss ambitious goals and working in a small team of friends and interesting people to reach the highs of professional achievement.

I suppose in the end everything is about the balance.

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