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How to Be More Agentic

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Re: How to Be More Agentic

#41

Post by danenania »

stvltvs wrote: post #35
danenania wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something else I find encouraging, and the reason, basically, that "everything is learnable" is that all knowledge, no matter how complex, is composed of fundamentally simple parts. Just as complex tasks or complex movements are composed of many simple steps or movements. This is what makes the maxim that "you don't understand something unless you can explain it in simple terms" true.

Yes, and this has its limits. Many true experts in their fields would struggle to explain their field simply. I like to think I'm an expert in my work, but how many times have I explained to my wife what I do in simple terms, and she still has no idea what I do? Complex ideas often get distorted or lost in simple explanations.

I think the limits are mainly a matter of time and mental energy. While quantum physics is ultimately composed of many simple concepts, the number is so large that it takes years to enumerate them all.

You could explain your work to your wife in terms simple and exhaustive enough for her to fully understand. It would just take a longer time and more concentration than either of you wants to expend.

Re: How to Be More Agentic

#42

Post by Podgajski »

broscillator wrote: post #27
Podgajski wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s with all the woo hoo here on HN? The very definition of the word luck goes against your “frame it on the wall” feely good saying. “success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.” but I guess you’re also saying that people who get cancer are just letting it happen? Maybe they should’ve investigated the edges. You see there are two types of luck, good luck and bad luck. Ho…

In these comments your agency is entirely aimed at negativity. In order to justify this you reframe it as realism. It's kind of like walking outside with your attention constantly focused on the fact that you might step on dog shit. If you do this, your agency is pulled away from appreciating a beautiful flower, or interchanging smiles with a pretty person, or seeing a hundred dollar bill off to the side. The fact th…

Your interpretation of my comments is negative. I’m not saying you can’t change your opportunity in life, I’m saying that if luck has anything to do with your success or failure, then it’s all based on luck, and nothing to do with what opportunities you create.

It may will be that I do everything wrong in life and limit my opportunities, and still win the lottery because I tripped and fell on my face and lo and behold there was a winning lottery ticket that someone misplaced.

What I am saying over and over again is increasing your odds of success. Does not change your luck. Just like you cannot change the fact if a coin lands on heads or tails. You have zero agency in that outcome.

Re: How to Be More Agentic

#43

Post by p1esk »

drakonka wrote: post #38
nick__m wrote: post #20

Assume everything is learnable This made me think of late grandmother who used to say : "c'est faite par du mondes" which roughly expand to "a person did/learned/discovered that so there is no a prioi reason that I cannot do so myself". That's the greatest value she passed unto me. When I feel that I cannot do something, I think about that phrase and persevere.

I always assumed everyone assumed everything was learnable. Realizing this (i.e., that being everyone's default belief) might not be the case is kind of blowing my mind a little right now.

Everything is learnable but most things are not worth learning.

Re: How to Be More Agentic

#44

Post by drakonka »

jvanderbot wrote: post #40
drakonka wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always assumed everyone assumed everything was learnable. Realizing this (i.e., that being everyone's default belief) might not be the case is kind of blowing my mind a little right now.

You can learn anything you want, but really wanting is the hardest part.

Agreed, I've always believed you can learn anything you want. The realization I was talking about was the one where maybe that's not the default assumption for everyone.

Re: How to Be More Agentic

#45

Post by Podgajski »

joh6nn wrote: post #34
abadpoli wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok never mind you did entirely miss the point of the article. Shame.

I think Podgajski is trying to make the following argument: Assume a standard 2-axes scatter plot, with a randomly placed horizontal line that represents chance/luck. The scattered points represent opportunities. Any opportunity that occurs above the luck line is successful, anything below it is unsuccessful. Above a given threshold of luck, maximizing opportunities is a good strategy because there's a high likelihoo…

Kind of but not really. But truly thank you for hearing what I’m saying. What I’m not saying is that people have good or bad luck in general. That you have a predetermined amount of luck.

Maybe this can simplify it even more. You have no agency deciding whether a coin lands on heads or tails. We would say someone is lucky if they said a coin will land on heads more than tails and they were right.

If Someone can explain to me how you can change your agency without physically manipulating the coin then have it. And these random things happen every day in our lives.

And I’m not even saying don’t try for success, I’m just saying, don’t listen to these people who talk about success like it’s something that you can achieve without being on your side.

The truth is you don’t have 100% agency in your life and you never will. It’s impossible. So since you don’t have 100% agency, the rest is up to luck. Good or bad luck whatever it is I’m not being negative here.

Re: How to Be More Agentic

#46

Post by scoot »

nick__m wrote: post #20

Assume everything is learnable This made me think of late grandmother who used to say : "c'est faite par du mondes" which roughly expand to "a person did/learned/discovered that so there is no a prioi reason that I cannot do so myself". That's the greatest value she passed unto me. When I feel that I cannot do something, I think about that phrase and persevere.

That in turn reminds me of a British reality TV series from the 2000s called "Faking It". Participants were trained by experts in a specific skill that they had no existing knowledge of, and then they had to convince others that they were genuinely skilled in that area, which they almost always did.

It was "fake it 'till you make it" condensed into a single episode. Loved that show!

Re: How to Be More Agentic

#47

Post by Podgajski »

nick__m wrote: post #31
Podgajski wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I didn’t miss the point of the article, I’m expressing the fact that she totally negates luck in anyone’s life circumstances, that it is all about agency. After all, you have to have some amount of luck to have agency in the first place.

If luck is a stable quantity for a given individual and it's range is ]-1,1[ you are right. But if luck is a quantity that fluctuate and is positively biased, (a reasonable a priori seeing that most people succeed at something) or that it's range is ]0,1[ , you are wrong and willful exposure to opportunities increase your total amount of wins.

Why are you saying that luck is positively based question. And what’s your definition of success.? I mean I put my coffee cup down on a table, do I count that as success?

Re: How to Be More Agentic

#48

Post by broscillator »

Podgajski wrote: post #42
broscillator wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In these comments your agency is entirely aimed at negativity. In order to justify this you reframe it as realism. It's kind of like walking outside with your attention constantly focused on the fact that you might step on dog shit. If you do this, your agency is pulled away from appreciating a beautiful flower, or interchanging smiles with a pretty person, or seeing a hundred dollar bill off to the side. The fact th…

Your interpretation of my comments is negative. I’m not saying you can’t change your opportunity in life, I’m saying that if luck has anything to do with your success or failure, then it’s all based on luck, and nothing to do with what opportunities you create. It may will be that I do everything wrong in life and limit my opportunities, and still win the lottery because I tripped and fell on my face and lo and behol…

It might also be that you find that lottery ticket and don't play it, because you believe you have no agency to do anything with the money anyway.

> Just like you cannot change the fact if a coin lands on heads or tails.

You can, just throw the coin again until it lands the way you want.

Re: How to Be More Agentic

#50

Post by stvltvs »

Podgajski wrote: post #14
zer00eyz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is that old lottery promo "you can't win if you don't play". There is this quote: "You miss one hundred percent of the shots you don't take. Even though there is only a 1-5% probably of scoring". There is the saying 9 times down 10 times up. Getting lucky is a function of trying, as well. Saying you have to get "lucky" isn't about luck, it's about a mentality of keep at it.

Playing the lottery versus not playing the lottery doesn’t change your luck, it changes your odds. If two people play the lottery the same amount of times and one person wins way more than the other, You would say one person was luckier than the other.

The meaning of the word lucky has shifted over time as we stopped believing that certain people have things go their way more often than average because fate, the gods, or whatever favors them.
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