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Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

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Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#31

Post by op00to »

afsag wrote: post #20
nmstoker wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an archaic take on sales. They're not selling fungible widgets, their service is not something to offload on clients who don't want it as then they'll obviously just stop the subscription, with all that's happened being to undermine Cloudflare's reputation and chance at future business. She comes across well, thinks on her feet and is assertive without being even remotely unreasonable.

And, still, she hasn't sold anything in four months. "Thinking that as a salesman you have to sell things is an archaic take on sales."

My company engages in sales cycles exceeding a year at times. Unless there's a renewal or something coming up in those 3 months, it takes at least that time to learn the sales tools and meet all your customers. I've never seen a sales person let go inside of a year.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#32

Post by ReflectedImage »

stavros wrote: post #7
billy99k wrote: post #2

[flagged]

She hasn't closed one deal in the one month she's been with the company after training, does that sound like a reasonable evaluation period to you? Why did she not receive any feedback on that from her manager? If your layoff is a surprise to the employee, you fucked up. > Brittney P. should be worried about her future job prospects. This video is now viral. I would think twice about hiring her. If you would avoid hi…

She had 3 deals on the go, the fact they didn't close during the Christmas holidays is to be expected.

Based on that video alone and the skill she used in communicating with HR, she's a brillant sales person. No doubt about it.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#33

Post by laserlight »

ryanSrich wrote: post #17
gjfxdfyu wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the part of getting positive performance feedback from her managers you decided to omit from your take?

I agree. BUT, having worked in tech for well over a decade now, you should absolutely 100% not believe any feedback that's given to you. She's in sales. She should understand that there's exactly 1 metric that matters, closing deals. I'm not saying it's her fault she got fired, but this should really be a lesson for everyone watching this video. Do not believe what they tell you.

> Do not believe what they tell you.

So let's say a manager tells their sales rep to focus on understanding well what the customer needs, before closing the deal. Sales rep doesn't give credit to the manager and rushes for a close. Customer turns out to be a bad fit for company's products and services. Now, the company has a liability.

Management exists for a reason. There cannot be “exactly 1 metric” in any job, unless it's paper clip maximization.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#35

Post by SushiHippie »

bitcharmer wrote: post #21

@dang This is a duplicate of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38977794

Which was a duplicate of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38963678

And before that, there was also this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38961859

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#36

Post by JazCE »

dp-hackernews wrote: post #6
billy99k wrote: post #2

[flagged]

In her own words, and seems like its the way the company works, she had a 3 month ramp - which I presume is along the lines of training, mentoring, pairing, learning the ropes by example etc - and then let lose to get stuck in, which as she says has been only one month that overlaped a holiday period. It sure seems like Cloudflare are just culling staff to me, or her manager has no managerial abilities and doesn't kn…

The problem with judging any of this is the same as knowing your history lessons and sources.

All we've really got to go on is Brittney Peaches account and Matthew Princes account and neither are going to be reliable sources. We'll never know if what Brittney Peach said is reliable and we'll never know if what Matthew Prince says is true.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#37

Post by alanfranz »

smabie wrote: post #14
stavros wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She hasn't closed one deal in the one month she's been with the company after training, does that sound like a reasonable evaluation period to you? Why did she not receive any feedback on that from her manager? If your layoff is a surprise to the employee, you fucked up. > Brittney P. should be worried about her future job prospects. This video is now viral. I would think twice about hiring her. If you would avoid hi…

I expect all employees to keep company business private. This is what NCs / NDAs are for.

What could it happen if they breach the NDA? Would they get terminated?

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#38

Post by smallerfish »

fvrghl wrote: post #10
ceuk wrote: post #8

In the UK (and most other places with fairly strong employee protections I imagine) it becomes pretty difficult to get rid of employees once they've been around for a while. Often involving a lengthy "managing out" process. Given this, it's common for a 3-6 month "probation period" when starting a new role in which you can be dismissed fairly arbitrarily. This makes sense given the commitment taking on an employee re…

In the US, that does not happen. The expectation is someone only gets terminated in the first year if they are terrible. Unless it’s a tiny startup, such a stint would raise concerns.

> The expectation is someone only gets terminated in the first year if they are terrible

That's an over generalization. I've walked a few people out the door within the first 3-6 months who weren't performing that well. They weren't terrible, just ultimately not a fit for one reason or another.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#40

Post by greatgib »

This video also give us an example of a trend of recent years that is really awful:

In very short cycles, going on a hire spree and then redundancies plans without real consequences for the management or companies. Basically it costs them almost nothing to mess with people's lives.

For example, when doing unreasonable mass hiring, the market goes up, because it is a sign of growth. Then, when firing people in mass, the market value also goes up because it is supposed a sign for short term increased revenue.

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