@dang
This is a duplicate of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38977794
Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone
21–30 of 201 posts
Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone
#22It’s awfully strange, in my experience, that her manager wouldn’t be there.
Makes me wonder if he hadn’t been let go too?
Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone
#23You can also see a comment from Matthew Prince on this video: https://twitter.com/eastdakota/status/1745697840180191501?t=...
Edit: Also discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38969065
Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
In her own words, and seems like its the way the company works, she had a 3 month ramp - which I presume is along the lines of training, mentoring, pairing, learning the ropes by example etc - and then let lose to get stuck in, which as she says has been only one month that overlaped a holiday period. It sure seems like Cloudflare are just culling staff to me, or her manager has no managerial abilities and doesn't kn…
She was in sales and sold nothing. 3 months is a long time to be unproductive. People complain about corporations sending out emails to notify people they have been fired or laid off. This person posting a hit video is a prime example why companies make things as brief as possible with no interaction available.
Sales people generally (in sensible firms) aren’t expected to sell anything in their first quarter while they learn the ropes, the product, etc.
It’s also not expected to make any real enterprise sales during Q4 or the beginning of Q1 - those are usually dead times of year.
Unless your sales org is a puppy mill/boiler room… which many are.
Also, in this case they cut a huge amount of the sales org, this seems more like a “shit we over hired and need to lay people off without it being a layoff, let’s use performance…” shenanigans.
Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
I expect all employees to keep company business private. This is what NCs / NDAs are for.
NDAs are for keeping the company's trade secrets in the company. They aren't so you can treat your employees badly and expect that to stay secret.
I understand your point. But reality is different.
Most employee NDAs will include a non disparage clause in the agreement. Its standard.
This is Why we have glassdoor forums. So you can disparage anonymously.
Or maybe she didnt sign the NDA and if so disparage away just dont expect other emoloyers to come running to you.
Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone
#26In the UK (and most other places with fairly strong employee protections I imagine) it becomes pretty difficult to get rid of employees once they've been around for a while. Often involving a lengthy "managing out" process. Given this, it's common for a 3-6 month "probation period" when starting a new role in which you can be dismissed fairly arbitrarily. This makes sense given the commitment taking on an employee re…
> In the UK (and most other places with fairly strong employee protections I imagine)
People keep saying this, but I'm not at all convinced anyone commenting really understands UK employment law. It's really only after 2 years of working for the same company that you get any decent employment protection.
It takes a bit more legal work, but if within the first 2 years they don't want you, they can get rid of you. If you're within your first 3 months of probation, they can just extend it to 6 months and get rid of you.
The UK is not a great country these days to go "employment laws keep you safe". There are better ones.
If you don't want these rug pulls and employment laws to keep getting watered down, instead of asking about 4 day work weeks, start voting for candidates and parties that have better employment laws at the top of their policies.
Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone
#27You can also see a comment from Matthew Prince on this video: https://twitter.com/eastdakota/status/1745697840180191501?t=... Edit: Also discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38969065
> "W-we actually didn't fire that many people."
> "I-it could be that she didn't actually listen to the feedback, guys. What if she had bad feedback?!" (Implying, without evidence, that the employee is at fault. The most tone-deaf part of his response.)
> "Maybe she'd be a star on another team!" (Pointless sports analogy. Another tone-deaf moment.)
> "W-we'll do better next time."
An embarrassing display.
Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone
#28In the UK (and most other places with fairly strong employee protections I imagine) it becomes pretty difficult to get rid of employees once they've been around for a while. Often involving a lengthy "managing out" process. Given this, it's common for a 3-6 month "probation period" when starting a new role in which you can be dismissed fairly arbitrarily. This makes sense given the commitment taking on an employee re…
[deleted]
Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
NDAs are for keeping the company's trade secrets in the company. They aren't so you can treat your employees badly and expect that to stay secret.
I understand your point. But reality is different. Most employee NDAs will include a non disparage clause in the agreement. Its standard. This is Why we have glassdoor forums. So you can disparage anonymously. Or maybe she didnt sign the NDA and if so disparage away just dont expect other emoloyers to come running to you.
What she posted wasn't "disparagement," for she hasn't herself said anything to disparage them. She simply posted a legally recorded conversation. If it made Cloudflare look bad, that's on them; they have only themselves to blame.
Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
She was in sales and sold nothing. 3 months is a long time to be unproductive. People complain about corporations sending out emails to notify people they have been fired or laid off. This person posting a hit video is a prime example why companies make things as brief as possible with no interaction available.
Sales people generally (in sensible firms) aren’t expected to sell anything in their first quarter while they learn the ropes, the product, etc. It’s also not expected to make any real enterprise sales during Q4 or the beginning of Q1 - those are usually dead times of year. Unless your sales org is a puppy mill/boiler room… which many are. Also, in this case they cut a huge amount of the sales org, this seems more li…
> It’s also not expected to make any real enterprise sales during Q4 or the beginning of Q1
I've worked at a few enterprise software companies in the US, and Q4 is always the busiest time for sales. Having a deal roll into Q1 is very undesirable, so sales people do what they can do close before the end of the year. Q1 is incredibly quiet.
On the Engineering side, yes - Q4 and Q1 are super quiet as sales is driving the economic machine in Q4, and everyone's doing planning in Q1.