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US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

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Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

#231

Post by InTheArena »

blibble wrote: post #222
InTheArena wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing tiny countries at the edge of Europe and the edge of the world with the the US as super-power is a weakness. Every country has adopted American Republicanism with a clearly defined and written constitution that has some form of separation of powers. None of these, for example, allow the PM to act as an absolute dictator without some form of emergency. The difference is simply in whether the president has an…

> Every country has adopted American Republicanism with a clearly defined and written constitution that has some form of separation of powers. the UK has none of this and its current system of government predates the US

The modern UK state has superficial resemblances - primarily in a shiny ceremonies with colonial era Britain,

Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

#233

Post by EasyMark »

feedsmgmt wrote: post #230

At this point why allow anyone to self inspect or self report anything? What's the upside to allowing the risk?

The upside is obviously that it's cheaper for the government. However, given Boeing's failures, that is no longer a reasonable bet to hedge on. We need to stop it before air travel becomes even more dangerous than car travel. Self-regulation with occasional friendly audits did work for a few decades, though, but Boeing got lazy and cocky and the FAA got too friendly and incestuous.

Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

#234

Post by InTheArena »

blibble wrote: post #221
InTheArena wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolute monarchy was still a thread at this time. They just called it enlightened despotism. The colonists were objecting to taxation (and really any form of government) without representation, which both the monarch and the parliament were at fault for. Enlightened Despotism died when George III didn't apply reason (as the colonists saw it) to rectify the problem. In terms of power then George III would have dreame…

> Absolute monarchy was still a thread at this time. The Civil War (1642-1651) was the last attempt at absolute monarchy in England then Bill of Rights (1688) put it well and truly to bed when Parliament decided they didn't like the current king and picked someone else, simultaneously stripping them of their powers it was well and truly dead by the time of the rebellion

Absolute monarchy never really existed in England. There is more to the world then England, and monarchy as government is still a thing. After all, a short hop-skip-jump across the channel, there is a French king soon to lose his head.

Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

#235

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

josh_carterPDX wrote: post #38
brink wrote: post #6

What other industry is allowed to inspect itself? It completely ruins the point of an inspection. It's like being the judge and jury in your own trial. I'm amazed this is a thing in the first place.

The FAA is bad, but I would say the FDA is worse. Any industry in which you have companies actually writing the text of the regulations used to oversee them is a recipe for disaster. Sadly it usually takes a tragedy to highlight these egregious systems that exist in our country. We also need to get lobbyists out of Washington so that the real impactful work can begin to separate the government agencies from the compa…

How so? The systems I develop are subject to IEC-62304 (https://www.iso.org/standard/38421.html). What about that is written by companies? Which companies?

Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

#236

Post by EasyMark »

strangattractor wrote: post #47

Many people seem to think this couldn't/wouldn't have happened if someone else had been doing the inspections. This problem was likely caused by a flaw in the process. A mistake a 3rd party could also make. It is not a mistake where Boeing is doing nefarious cost cutting and needs to hide it or has made a huge engineering mistake affecting all the aircraft. Somebody put the plug in - got a phone call, or shift change…

That seems doubtful since it's not happening on airplugs in other planes. Sure a third party could have failed as well, but Boeing's currently suspect inspection standards are far more likely to fail (if true and with the incentive to cut costs as much as possible) than a 3rd party whose sole reason for survival/earnings is to get paid for doing inspections. I trust greed more than I trust a "gentlemen's agreement" to do the right thing.

Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

#237

Post by OtherShrezzing »

gottorf wrote: post #103
wanderingmind wrote: post #101

As an aside, For all those who talk about corruption and getting money out of politics I suggest reading Federalist 10 by Madison. Its a deep analysis of a need for a republican democracy. Any government that depends on human virtuousness will fail. The only way to have a sustainable government is to have strong checks and balances and putting multiple factions with different interests against one another.

> Any government that depends on human virtuousness will fail. The only way to have a sustainable government is to have strong checks and balances and putting multiple factions with different interests against one another. Absolutely! Any form of government that depends on an unbroken line of "good people" in power will fail, and fail much sooner than anybody thinks. Modern China has already reached the end of their…

Strangely the UK, which has a no formal constitution and an unimaginable number "gentleman's agreement" parliamentary traditions - with absolutely no recourse for political malfeasance - has faired remarkably well for hundreds of years. The entire system is built on the notion that "the next leader will probably not undermine the entire system". It's only really faced a couple of real internal systemic threats throughout its history and was (until the last decade) considered a bastion of political stability.

Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

#238

Post by vkou »

pi-e-sigma wrote: post #200
vkou wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you like to tell us how the NYSE is corrupt? Or do they just get tarred with 'Well, they work in finance, of course they are all crooks' brush?

Just google what they do when they don't like some trades

The internet's full of garbage. All that'll find me is a mountain of people who don't understand what they are talking about shouting very loudly.

I'm not going to waste my time sifting through it to find evidence for a claim you're making.

Make a specific claim of corruption, and provide evidence for it.

Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

#239

Post by jltsiren »

wanderingmind wrote: post #101

As an aside, For all those who talk about corruption and getting money out of politics I suggest reading Federalist 10 by Madison. Its a deep analysis of a need for a republican democracy. Any government that depends on human virtuousness will fail. The only way to have a sustainable government is to have strong checks and balances and putting multiple factions with different interests against one another.

Checks and balances will fail without virtue. There are plenty of examples of that around the world. Checks and balances are fundamentally nothing more than words on a paper. They cannot be stronger than the elites' belief in their legitimacy.

Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

#240

Post by ajmurmann »

gottorf wrote: post #103
wanderingmind wrote: post #101

As an aside, For all those who talk about corruption and getting money out of politics I suggest reading Federalist 10 by Madison. Its a deep analysis of a need for a republican democracy. Any government that depends on human virtuousness will fail. The only way to have a sustainable government is to have strong checks and balances and putting multiple factions with different interests against one another.

> Any government that depends on human virtuousness will fail. The only way to have a sustainable government is to have strong checks and balances and putting multiple factions with different interests against one another. Absolutely! Any form of government that depends on an unbroken line of "good people" in power will fail, and fail much sooner than anybody thinks. Modern China has already reached the end of their…

I think a better way of phrasing that is "We cannot ask for better people. The right system makes the wrong people do the right thing". Russ Roberts sometimes says something like this and probably quoted someone else who I forgot
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