What other industry is allowed to inspect itself? It completely ruins the point of an inspection. It's like being the judge and jury in your own trial. I'm amazed this is a thing in the first place.
Pharmaceutical.
US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes
61–70 of 367 posts
Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes
#62Many people seem to think this couldn't/wouldn't have happened if someone else had been doing the inspections. This problem was likely caused by a flaw in the process. A mistake a 3rd party could also make. It is not a mistake where Boeing is doing nefarious cost cutting and needs to hide it or has made a huge engineering mistake affecting all the aircraft. Somebody put the plug in - got a phone call, or shift change…
> It is not a mistake where Boeing is doing nefarious cost cutting and needs to hide it or has made a huge engineering mistake affecting all the aircraft.
Is this sarcasm? If not you really need to read the notes from the MAX 7 crash investigation, starting here [0]. That is exactly what Boeing did. MCAS was a hack to fix a plane badly designed to save costs. They rushed to release, ignored incomplete testing, hide information from the FAA, buried MCAS inside another features notes and forced engineers to say that only computer based training was needed for pilots for the new MAX planes despite big differences, all to save themselves and airlines costs.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_certification
Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Stockbroking, cinema, accountancy, law, life insurance, financial planning, nuclear power, real estate, medicine, advertising, media...[0][1] Self-regulation (especially at the industry level rather than delegating to individual companies) doesn't seem completely broken. Actually it can work quite well. You keep some oversight, and reserve the right for the state regulator to step in if the SRO goes bad. The people w…
SRO sounds like a middle-man in this process. And like all middle-man industries, they suck out money from both sides that they deal with. We can easily publicly fund over-sight committees to oversee these industries instead of relying on SROs who take tax-payer money and are in the perfect financial and power position to do some really corrupt and immoral things. Look at the National Association of Realtors, another…
>We can easily publicly fund over-sight committees to oversee these industries instead of relying on SROs who take tax-payer money and are in the perfect financial and power position to do some really corrupt and immoral things.
Easily, really? Why is the default position that industry players are corrupt and immoral, but the government overseers will act independently and altruistically and have no financial stake in the outcome? That doesn't jibe with my experience. People in government seem to do some of the most immoral acts out there.
Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Stockbroking, cinema, accountancy, law, life insurance, financial planning, nuclear power, real estate, medicine, advertising, media...[0][1] Self-regulation (especially at the industry level rather than delegating to individual companies) doesn't seem completely broken. Actually it can work quite well. You keep some oversight, and reserve the right for the state regulator to step in if the SRO goes bad. The people w…
An industry regulating itself is different from an organisation regulating itself. Self regulation of the industry is common as you say. It tends to involve one central body enforcing the standards on the members, and acting as a central point for agreement of the standards. This is not the case with the Aviation regulation. The FAA is the regulator, and has delegated the testing to the people it is meant to be regul…
Also, generally speaking, self regulation involves a third party, like an impartial industry wide organization or a competitor.
Inspecting the self is a bit bonkers.
Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you think Boeing would have (or could have) swept that under the rug if there was no video of the incident? I don't think it makes sense for any manufacturer to be solely responsible for their own safety inspections. Too much incentive to cheat. Must be verified or at least randomly spot-checked independently.
> Do you think Boeing would have (or could have) swept that under the rug if there was no video of the incident? Yes. It is way more powerful to actually see what happen than to just hear a report about it. I think it was more powerful than even a plane crash that is not caught on film, even though many people would die. Do not underestimate the power of photo and video evidence.
I dunno; I think that in a case where you can see photos of a guy holding up a blown-off plane door that fell on (or next to? I don't recall the exact details) his house, video of the incident as it happened is just the icing on the cake.
Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes
#66[flagged]
Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes
#67Dear regulators, Do it. Do it now. Sincerely, Everyone
Easier said then done. Inspecting planes is job that requires a lot of skill and knowledge. Most of those people aren't cheap and they tend to work for airplane companies that need their skills and can pay their salaries. Which in the US means Boeing basically employs all the best people for this. IMHO, the system actually works just fine. Accidents are extremely rare and companies tend to learn from them. A better f…
Poach people from Airbus. Just pay them well and bring them over.
Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Stockbroking, cinema, accountancy, law, life insurance, financial planning, nuclear power, real estate, medicine, advertising, media...[0][1] Self-regulation (especially at the industry level rather than delegating to individual companies) doesn't seem completely broken. Actually it can work quite well. You keep some oversight, and reserve the right for the state regulator to step in if the SRO goes bad. The people w…
An industry regulating itself is different from an organisation regulating itself. Self regulation of the industry is common as you say. It tends to involve one central body enforcing the standards on the members, and acting as a central point for agreement of the standards. This is not the case with the Aviation regulation. The FAA is the regulator, and has delegated the testing to the people it is meant to be regul…
Prominent examples of "Self Regulating Organizations": The New York Stock Exchange (NYSE), The Financial Planning Association (FPA), Chicago Board of Trade (CBOT), American Council of Life Insurers (ACLI), Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, Inc. (FINRA), Fixed Income Clearing Corporation (FICC), Options Clearing Corporation (OCC), American Institute of Certified Public Accounts (AICPA)
Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes
#69What other industry is allowed to inspect itself? It completely ruins the point of an inspection. It's like being the judge and jury in your own trial. I'm amazed this is a thing in the first place.
You got a laundry list of responses, the take away is that even with modern technology and abilities it is completely impractical to do the sort of inspecting that people seem to think is common place. Even for just one industry, but people seem to think every industry has regulators inspecting every factory. There just aren't enough people or money and if you did somehow do that the bureaucracy would collapse down onto itself in the same way imperial China repeatedly imploded.
Edit: the promise of the blockchain and self executing contracts was to overcome this bureaucracy problem.
Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
hire airbus to inspect boeing, and hire boeing to inspect airbus?
That would be fun... or end with both manufacturers being completely grounded by the other and we back to canoes and horse carriages :)
I would love for trains to get more attention in the US. ...