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Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

economist.com

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Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#241

Post by arcticbull »

725686 wrote: post #240
arcticbull wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Agree 100%. Wind turbines killing birds is a disingenuous argument when it comes to climate change. If the people involved in this conversation actually cared about birds, they wouldn't be worried about either. They'd be worried about cats. Cats kill about 20-55% of the entire US bird population every single year. Somewhere between 1.3B and 4B birds per year in the US alone. [1] And an order of magnitude more small…

I don't know shit, but I'm pretty sure the kind of birds cats kill are very different from the kind of birds that get killed in wind turbines, i.e. eagles

Not having any birds or small mammals to eat because the cats killed all of them is going to do a number on them too. Despite their ability to win a physical confrontation.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#242

Post by dawnerd »

SamBam wrote: post #25

The local birds killed by oil drilling aren't even what we should be comparing to. Even if that number were zero, bird populations world still be better off in a world powered by wind turbines than oil and gas. Global warning is coming for birds too. Global warming poses an "existential threat for two thirds of North American bird species" [1] and obviously a similar proportion of bird species around the globe. 1. ht…

Climate change causing larger fires hurt bird sanctuaries like this one that happened in my backyard

https://phys.org/news/2017-12-scientists-survivors-thomas-co...

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#243

Post by saalweachter »

arcticbull wrote: post #235
botanical wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree 100%. Wind turbines killing birds is a disingenuous argument when it comes to climate change. > Birds of prey in Africa experiencing population collapse, study finds > new research used road surveys to find that nearly 90% of the 42 raptor species studied had experienced declines, with more than two-thirds showing evidence of being globally threatened. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/04/birds-o…

> Agree 100%. Wind turbines killing birds is a disingenuous argument when it comes to climate change. If the people involved in this conversation actually cared about birds, they wouldn't be worried about either. They'd be worried about cats. Cats kill about 20-55% of the entire US bird population every single year. Somewhere between 1.3B and 4B birds per year in the US alone. [1] And an order of magnitude more small…

You've convinced me: we should replace all cats in the US with wind turbines.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#244

Post by throwaway03675 »

nullstyle wrote: post #233
coryrc wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cats are killing endangered birds everywhere outside their native range. They are killing them in the Americas, in Australia, in New Zealand... basically everywhere that's not Europe, Africa, or West Asia IIUC. One reason you might not think it's a big deal is because the genocide is almost complete. They've already killed off 63 species and more in progress: https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-indoors/cats-and-birds/

Felis Catus doesn't have a native range in any meaningful manner, IMO. They are a global species like us, because of us. You can't put that cat back in the bag no matter the .22 cartridges you expend.

That shouldn't stop us from trying to limit their growth. "The cat is out of the bag" so to speak, but a lot of the growth comes from runaway cats, or cats that have been abandoned by their owners (happens more often than you think)

We could start by requiring all domestic cats to be sterilized, so that they don't breed. Then the cat population would be limited to certified breeders and wild cats.

We could also have the same restrictions on cats as dogs. They should not be allowed to be outside unless they are in leash or in a controlled environment (the latter is hard, as cats can climb over standard fences). I guess fully enclosed "cat parks" would be an option.

You may have a harder time training a cat to wear a leash compared to a dog, but it's possible.

It's strange to me that we think cats need to be outside to satisfy their predator instincts, as if dogs and other animals like to be inside all day while we are at work. If someone doesn't like that thought, they have the option of not owning a cat.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#245

Post by [deleted] »

ta1243 wrote: post #230
failTide wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cats and wind turbines present dangers to different types of birds, with the turbines being a danger to larger raptors including condors - so I think your comparison is an oversimplification of the issue, even though I'm a proponent of wind power in general.

LOL, I'm reminded of a Futurama episode from over a decade ago where one of the presidential candidates during the debate, when asked "Environment: Yes or No" replied: Two words: Condor attack. Don't want that. Got to say no. It feels like "Condor" is a trigger phrase that's been around and programmed into people for years

[deleted]

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#246

Post by [deleted] »

mikepurvis wrote: post #239
SoftTalker wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those cooling towers are just large hollow hyperboloids. There's nothing in there that would "shred" a bird. And since they don't move, it's not likely that a bird would collide with one (though maybe that happens from time to time)

Them being solid and made of concrete is almost certainly a huge step up over skyscrapers made of glass, which is a deathtrap for birds on account of being reflective and basically invisible to them. That said I think the GP might just be trolling, as I've never heard of anyone raising an issue with cooling towers being a threat in this way. The anti-nuclear discourse has always (rightly) been focused squarely on ope…

[deleted]

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#247

Post by failTide »

ta1243 wrote: post #230
failTide wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cats and wind turbines present dangers to different types of birds, with the turbines being a danger to larger raptors including condors - so I think your comparison is an oversimplification of the issue, even though I'm a proponent of wind power in general.

LOL, I'm reminded of a Futurama episode from over a decade ago where one of the presidential candidates during the debate, when asked "Environment: Yes or No" replied: Two words: Condor attack. Don't want that. Got to say no. It feels like "Condor" is a trigger phrase that's been around and programmed into people for years

They were extinct in the wild in the late 80s. There's under 500 in the wild now. Of all the things that might trigger people, I suppose condor extinction is pretty understandable.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#248

Post by arcticbull »

nullstyle wrote: post #233
coryrc wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cats are killing endangered birds everywhere outside their native range. They are killing them in the Americas, in Australia, in New Zealand... basically everywhere that's not Europe, Africa, or West Asia IIUC. One reason you might not think it's a big deal is because the genocide is almost complete. They've already killed off 63 species and more in progress: https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-indoors/cats-and-birds/

Felis Catus doesn't have a native range in any meaningful manner, IMO. They are a global species like us, because of us. You can't put that cat back in the bag no matter the .22 cartridges you expend.

I dunno, Alberta has no rats. It's doable if you're willing.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#249

Post by MaxHoppersGhost »

ta1243 wrote: post #216
VincentEvans wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, thats it? This is the downside compared to the oil and coal?

When I picture an oil derrick, I see the arm going up and down and thus blocking the sun. Also the methane coming off, the the flares lighting up the night sky. And the smell.

A pumpjack is what goes up and down, not an oil Derrick. Pumpjacks are usually not that tall, rarely taller than a big tree. They also don’t have flares.

But yeah wouldn’t want to live by that either.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#250

Post by standeven »

I worked in oil/gas for a long time. In addition to "windmills are killing all the birds", here are a few of the top green energy lies I've heard:

1. Solar panels are toxic, require more energy to produce than they generate, and can't be recycled.

2. EV's are worse for the environment than ICE vehicles.

3. Lithium mining is worse than oil/gas drilling.

4. Solar/wind prices are skyrocketing and everyone is abandoning solar/wind.

5. Solar/wind can't work because they're too intermittent.

6. Climate change isn't real OR climate change is real but natural and unstoppable OR climate change is helpful to the planet (these opposing beliefs are often repeated back to back)

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