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Epistemic Learned Helplessness (2019)

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Re: Epistemic Learned Helplessness (2019)

#21

Post by 0xdeadbeefbabe »

nineplay wrote: post #12

>engineering trains you to have a very black-and-white right-or-wrong view of the world based on a few simple formulae, and this meshes with fundamentalism better than it meshes with subtle liberal religious messages. Back in the usenet days it was taken as given that any creationist was also an engineer. Creationism was nice and neat and logical unlike that handwavy big bang thing that was probably dreamed up by woo…

> Creationism was nice and neat and logical

Also requires less faith

Re: Epistemic Learned Helplessness (2019)

#22

Post by Swizec »

philip1209 wrote: post #18

This article talks about learned helplessness in a learning context. I talked about it in a work context, and the two could be linked. I think social media is training people for everything to be quick, but learning + work aren't necessarily quick. > This insistence on constant availability disrupts the essence of focused work. Rather than encouraging employees to tackle complex problems independently, there’s a tren…

As a tech lead I would rather see a team member ask me questions early than never. Nudging them in the right direction before they waste 3 days going down a path that’s never going to work is at least half my job.

But it’s important that they’ve done enough research to formulate the question. A little struggle helps the learning stick.

Re: Epistemic Learned Helplessness (2019)

#23

Post by 0xdeadbeefbabe »

bongripper wrote: post #3

>I don’t think I’m overselling myself too much to expect that I could argue circles around the average uneducated person. Like I mean that on most topics, I could demolish their position and make them look like an idiot. Reduce them to some form of “Look, everything you say fits together and I can’t explain why you’re wrong, I just know you are!” Or, more plausibly, “Shut up I don’t want to talk about this!” > And th…

It's funny he says circles so much.

Re: Epistemic Learned Helplessness (2019)

#24

Post by stuaxo »

0xdeadbeefbabe wrote: post #21
nineplay wrote: post #12

>engineering trains you to have a very black-and-white right-or-wrong view of the world based on a few simple formulae, and this meshes with fundamentalism better than it meshes with subtle liberal religious messages. Back in the usenet days it was taken as given that any creationist was also an engineer. Creationism was nice and neat and logical unlike that handwavy big bang thing that was probably dreamed up by woo…

> Creationism was nice and neat and logical Also requires less faith

How?

Re: Epistemic Learned Helplessness (2019)

#25

Post by thadt »

> The medical establishment offers a shiny tempting solution. First, a total unwillingness to trust anything, no matter how plausible it sounds, until it’s gone through an endless cycle of studies and meta-analyses.

Isn't this just... science? We learned from the ancient philosophers that really smart people can reason powerfully about a whole lot of things. But - if we want to know whether that reasoning holds up, it has to be tested. Modern science is the current unit testing framework for philosophy. At least, for the thoughts that lend themselves to unit testing.

Re: Epistemic Learned Helplessness (2019)

#26

Post by bannedbybros »

helicalmix wrote: post #11
bongripper wrote: post #3

>I don’t think I’m overselling myself too much to expect that I could argue circles around the average uneducated person. Like I mean that on most topics, I could demolish their position and make them look like an idiot. Reduce them to some form of “Look, everything you say fits together and I can’t explain why you’re wrong, I just know you are!” Or, more plausibly, “Shut up I don’t want to talk about this!” > And th…

If anything, Scott is underselling himself, and could probably argue circles against the average educated person. Debates are the rationalists bread and butter, and you should expect them to be better at you the same way you would expect a trained boxer to beat you in a fistfight.

lmao

Re: Epistemic Learned Helplessness (2019)

#27

Post by MichaelZuo »

thadt wrote: post #25

> The medical establishment offers a shiny tempting solution. First, a total unwillingness to trust anything, no matter how plausible it sounds, until it’s gone through an endless cycle of studies and meta-analyses. Isn't this just... science? We learned from the ancient philosophers that really smart people can reason powerfully about a whole lot of things. But - if we want to know whether that reasoning holds up, i…

It does seem like odd phrasing. It's correct to not fully trust anything until it's gone through a long verification process.

Re: Epistemic Learned Helplessness (2019)

#29

Post by nineplay »

0xdeadbeefbabe wrote: post #21
nineplay wrote: post #12

>engineering trains you to have a very black-and-white right-or-wrong view of the world based on a few simple formulae, and this meshes with fundamentalism better than it meshes with subtle liberal religious messages. Back in the usenet days it was taken as given that any creationist was also an engineer. Creationism was nice and neat and logical unlike that handwavy big bang thing that was probably dreamed up by woo…

> Creationism was nice and neat and logical Also requires less faith

To some degree the idea of a Creator is easier to wrap one's head around than the idea of nothing-->something.

Of course it really just rolls the question uphill since you're now faced with 'Where did the Creator come from?'. Happily there are no academic theories on this matter so there's no need to engage with it. Ultimately satisfaction doesn't come from the belief itself, satisfaction comes from the feeling of being Right while others are Wrong.

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