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Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company

reuters.com

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Re: Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company

#101

Post by cqqxo4zV46cp »

jesseendahl wrote: post #93
chunkyguy wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple Stock Falls In Minutes After 'Vision Pro' Announcement" https://www.barrons.com/livecoverage/apple-wwdc-2023/card/ap... Also Microsoft is still selling HoloLens but for selected audience.

I’ve been following Apple for a long time and the stock almost always rises ahead of announcements and falls after. Pretty sure that pattern has existed for ~20 years.

Yep. Yet time after time “stock dropped after announcement” is trotted out as some sort of indicator of consumer sentiment whenever anyone is looking to start a silly flame war, because it’s convenient to temporarily ignore that share prices are already the result of 12-dimensional speed chess.

Re: Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company

#102

Post by cqqxo4zV46cp »

nineteen999 wrote: post #95
kaashif wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fair enough, but Microsoft would be equally dead without Office and Azure revenue. Office and Azure make up half of their revenue, but their other revenue streams are actually different things, like Windows, gaming, LinkedIn, Bing advertising. It's actual diversification.

People forget that Apple of today probably wouldn't be around if Microsoft hadn't given them $150M to save them from bankruptcy in 1997[1]. With the introduction of IE in 1995 and its deep integration into Win95 and ruthless take-no-prisoners assault on Netscape, Microsoft was probably already aware that they were starting to resemble a monopoly, given Apple's poor sales and market share at the time. My personal take…

I really don’t think that people “forget” that. You’re effectively saying “if Microsoft continued to be predatory and anticompetitive to the degree they were, there wouldn’t be [other option]”. What’s the point? Seems self-evident.

Re: Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company

#103

Post by another2another »

nineteen999 wrote: post #95
kaashif wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fair enough, but Microsoft would be equally dead without Office and Azure revenue. Office and Azure make up half of their revenue, but their other revenue streams are actually different things, like Windows, gaming, LinkedIn, Bing advertising. It's actual diversification.

People forget that Apple of today probably wouldn't be around if Microsoft hadn't given them $150M to save them from bankruptcy in 1997[1]. With the introduction of IE in 1995 and its deep integration into Win95 and ruthless take-no-prisoners assault on Netscape, Microsoft was probably already aware that they were starting to resemble a monopoly, given Apple's poor sales and market share at the time. My personal take…

>probably wouldn't be around if Microsoft hadn't given them $150M to save them from bankruptcy in 1997

I'm _pretty_ sure Apple could have gotten the money from elsewhere if they really had to. It's history now, so we'll never know for sure, but I'd bet that they could have found other investors if they really had to. People seem to think it's a black and white scenario - money from MS or death! But I don't think it ever was.

Re: Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company

#104

Post by another2another »

CharlesW wrote: post #63
paxys wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of that other half would still be around if the iPhone was no longer a thing? Apple Care? App store purchases? IAP/microtransactions? Apple Pay? iCloud storage? Chargers? Airpods? They can structure their financial reports however they like, but it doesn't change the fact that their entire ecosystem is directly or indirectly tied to that one device.

Fair enough, but Microsoft would be equally dead without Office and Azure revenue. One way to think about this is that Apple isn't diversified enough. Another way to think about it is that Microsoft's long tail is a mess.

>Fair enough, but Microsoft would be equally dead without Office and Azure revenue.

They were already on a bit of a shaky nail for a while when they relied only on Office and Windows, but their shift to the cloud (and resultant cuddly Embrace of Linux) has paid off well for them, so overall a smart move on their part.

Re: Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company

#105

Post by another2another »

thefz wrote: post #57
scottyah wrote: post #10

The main things I see lately are: Apple is creating VR headsets and new chip technology, Microsoft is buying up AI companies and injecting ads/spyware into their operating systems. Also Microsoft is getting big into cloud. Interesting to see what Wall Street rewards.

Microsoft has been innovating way more than Apple, which is always going for the low hanging fruit of taking tested and consolidated tech from others and rebranding it as its own.

>Microsoft has been innovating way more than Apple,

What has Microsoft been innovating recently?

>taking tested and consolidated tech from others and rebranding it as its own.

Didn't Microsoft just recently build out a whole public cloud infrastructure by copying AWS and "rebranding it as its own"?

That's not innovating, that's direct competition, red in tooth and claw - something MS relishes.

Re: Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company

#106

Post by nailer »

scottyah wrote: post #10

The main things I see lately are: Apple is creating VR headsets and new chip technology, Microsoft is buying up AI companies and injecting ads/spyware into their operating systems. Also Microsoft is getting big into cloud. Interesting to see what Wall Street rewards.

> The main things I see lately are...Microsoft is buying up AI companies and injecting ads/spyware into their operating systems. Also Microsoft is getting big into cloud.

Thing the markets would care about, thing you are personally bothered by, thing the markets would care about. Got it.

No, the advertising and telemetry in Windows isn't a reason for the markets to value Microsoft highly.

Re: Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company

#107

Post by jncfhnb »

dr_kiszonka wrote: post #76
jncfhnb wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is irritating when people who have no idea what they’re talking about make judgmental comments like “interesting what wall st rewards”. This guy has no clue what wall st rewards. He clearly does not understand the current situation. He clearly does not follow it in depth. If you’re going to excuse this guy making an obnoxious unfounded moral high ground claim, grant me the same courtesy for telling others not to p…

> This guy has no clue what wall st rewards. He clearly does not understand the current situation. He clearly does not follow it in depth. Would you mind sharing what the other comment is missing?

Sure! If you’re going to start with the financial value of any company, begin with their net income, growth trajectory, dividend yield, etc. Observe that none of this includes media headlines.

After that, you can start to try and figure how where most of the money comes from. For Apple this is the iPhone hardware sales and the App Store tax. For Microsoft it’s split roughly evenly across cloud, business processes and PCs. Cloud is the biggest.

These are the basic fundamental facts that begin to describe why Microsoft may or may not be valued. I don’t care or have an opinion on it. But I’m irritated by some guy saying he heard four media headlines ergo shame on wall st. for trading based on those four headlines. Like shut the fuck up man. That’s such a stupid claim. And look how many people have been suckered into responding to this garbage.

Re: Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company

#108

Post by jncfhnb »

desmond373 wrote: post #78
jncfhnb wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is irritating when people who have no idea what they’re talking about make judgmental comments like “interesting what wall st rewards”. This guy has no clue what wall st rewards. He clearly does not understand the current situation. He clearly does not follow it in depth. If you’re going to excuse this guy making an obnoxious unfounded moral high ground claim, grant me the same courtesy for telling others not to p…

I disagree with the original commenter, I think the switch is because of the EUs crackdown on apples monopoly like practices(among other reasons). However your comment in response is not better than his original. Who are you to decide who can hold a moral judgement. You give no better argument to hear out your opinion over the originals.

The problem is not holding a moral judgment. The problem is asserting that wall st behaves according to the four media headlines that he read; and then encouraging people to pass a moral judgment on them on that premise. His premise is stupid and basically acknowledged by the poster as underinformed.

Re: Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company

#109

Post by jlokier »

bmitc wrote: post #51
dataangel wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignorant question: Does much actually make it out of MS Research? I've seen lots of interesting retrospectives on stuff that either failed or just has never come out of the lab (Singularity/Midori, accessibility demos showing phones reading restaurant menus to the blind, their tablet pre-ipad, etc.) but I don't think I know of anything they made that really grew up off the top of my head. I didn't want to say this wi…

There are several examples. F# came from Microsoft Research and has also fed into C#. Also, Haskell. Note that it does research and not R&D. You aren't going to get products from research but rather technology advancements that then get incorporated. That happens a lot, and they obviously publish a lot.

Fwiw, Haskell is not from Microsoft Research.

The Haskell 1.0 specification was published before Microsoft Research existed at all.

(I worked briefly on a Haskell compiler in those days.)

Re: Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company

#110

Post by ShadowBanThis01 »

yunwal wrote: post #80
al_borland wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t need to beat OpenAI if they plan to play a different game. The biggest question mark, like you mention, is how innovative can Apple be under Tim Cook? Are there systems and people in place to serve as those visionaries when the CEO is an operator at heart? I often wonder how much of what we’ve seen was in the pipeline when Jobs was still around, or is simply taken from what is popular in the moment vs havi…

Apple Pencil is an example of a nicely designed product that Steve Jobs almost certainly did not contribute to (he hated styluses).

That's sarcasm, right? Surely you're not lauding this asinine peripheral that is supposed to be jammed into a fragile port to recharge while sticking out like a chopstick waiting to be snapped off.

Surely you're not lauding a near-useless gimmick that inexplicably doesn't work on the (defectively) giant trackpads of Apple's own computers... or most of their iPads.

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