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Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

economist.com

111–120 of 413 posts

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#111
post #105

If we cared about birds we would be talking about reducing car traffic and saving more areas for wildlife. The argument against Solar and Wind with regards to wildlife preservation is almost always a distraction.

If we cared about birds we'd be aggressively controlling the cat population.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#112

The title is symptomatic for the climate discourse; either for or against oil/coal and wind/solar. I find the question "what is a reliable, clean and affordable energy source?" much more relevant and productive.

Affordable is the trick, though - while I totally understand why that is important, sometimes it seems like we're going to end up saying: "Sorry we are going extinct... staying alive wasn't profitable." I know that is both an idealistic and hyperbolic take on things. The bigger point is that when people say "affordable", they often really mean "profitable". But we cannot afford not to fix the problems.

"Affordable" could also be taken as "doable". Which broadens the scope largely but misses the main problem: sustainability. This take is not just not helpful but, i would argue, actively harmful to the debate.

By definition, sustainability is a waste management, that allows recycling rates of 90% or higher. CO2 is just one of our waste products we totally didnt care about.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Both are to blame, but meat is more delicious than oil, so ppl prefer, with all the reason in the world to dunk on big oil. First we go and kill big oil, after that we can talk about killing big meat.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#114

I want to believe, but this article is less than convincing without reading detail about the study’s methods. I didn’t see a link to the paper on my first read. When I decided to go back and get the author’s name, Economist’s paywall kicked in. If anybody can see the full article, it would be lovely if you put the name of the researcher in the comments so I can read the original paper.

It's easy to believe. The massive ecological destruction caused by the oil and gas industry is well documented. Whatever downsides there are to wind mills, pale in comparison to that.

>Whatever downsides there are to wind mills, pale in comparison to that.

So in your world we're going to do whatever because it can't be as bad? Sounds like a terrible plan.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Affordable is the trick, though - while I totally understand why that is important, sometimes it seems like we're going to end up saying: "Sorry we are going extinct... staying alive wasn't profitable." I know that is both an idealistic and hyperbolic take on things. The bigger point is that when people say "affordable", they often really mean "profitable". But we cannot afford not to fix the problems.

"Affordable" could also be taken as "doable". Which broadens the scope largely but misses the main problem: sustainability. This take is not just not helpful but, i would argue, actively harmful to the debate. By definition, sustainability is a waste management, that allows recycling rates of 90% or higher. CO2 is just one of our waste products we totally didnt care about.

The United States spent 6% of its GDP putting human beings on the moon. And this was done during a time that historians don't generally consider to be a time of vast deprivation for the populace; it turns out investing in and inventing rocketry and aerospace technologies the likes of which humanity has never seen before is great for job creation.

How much of the GDP should we be willing to spend to actively replace pollution generating energy plants with lower polluting alternatives?

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#117

The title is symptomatic for the climate discourse; either for or against oil/coal and wind/solar. I find the question "what is a reliable, clean and affordable energy source?" much more relevant and productive.

> "what is a reliable, clean and affordable energy source?"

"Clean" and "affordable" map immediately and obviously onto wind and solar; what then happens is people engage in a lot of wrangling around "reliable" to push nuclear, requiring bending both "clean" and "affordable" quite a bit and running into an invisible other criteria of "quick to deploy" and "politically acceptable".

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#118
post #25

The local birds killed by oil drilling aren't even what we should be comparing to. Even if that number were zero, bird populations world still be better off in a world powered by wind turbines than oil and gas. Global warning is coming for birds too. Global warming poses an "existential threat for two thirds of North American bird species" [1] and obviously a similar proportion of bird species around the globe. 1. ht…

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Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#119
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Nuclear fusion was part of the debate on Wednesday, sigh.

For whatever reason, wind, solar, geothermal, fission aren't good enough to pursue for the American political party that has the most oil and and gas funding.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#120
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incredibly false. A typical "large" rig will need a 100m x 100m drill pad, roads to access which are often highly controlled during the design phase. A drilling rig will remain on location for MAYBE 30-40 days if it is a deep well (2000m-7000m). A completions rig (aka service rig) will come out afterwards to complete the well (install downhole equipment / frac / get the well ready for production). Lease may be a bit…

So 2-1/2 acres plus roads, instead of 5 acres, and you address how long, which OP didn't mention, in no way disputing him. Not a basis for leading with "incredibly false."

>So 2-1/2 acres plus roads, instead of 5 acres

Just an exaggeration of 100%, no big deal?

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