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Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

economist.com

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Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#61

Post by jeffbee »

kapnap wrote: post #42
jeffbee wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, every hole results in an eventual dump, tank, yard, road, or some other dang thing and the net land wrecked per operation is five acres. https://maps.app.goo.gl/sKfYNokGcidWLGTQ7

Sheesh. That's insane. My understanding is that East California is like that too. Not sure the status as of today and if this is still permitted or not? Look up some images from LA in the early oil boom - crazy. Here's an example of them in Alberta (where I am familiar): https://maps.app.goo.gl/73x4uKZxWKbZkgD76

In 2023 California almost halted drilling permits, but mainly because the governor has national office ambitions and he was starting to get some criticism from the hypocrisy of having overseen 10000+ new oil permits during his tenure.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#62

Post by osigurdson »

genman wrote: post #15
adastra22 wrote: post #2

What a weird comparison. Nobody is saying we should drill oil and gas instead of wind turbines.

Yet those opponents of the wind turbines want to have all the benefits of the modern society like medicine and transportation and that sweet electricity that enables the electromagnetic waves used for planet wide communication. It almost feels like they are shilling for oil and gas companies or for authoritarian regimes that receive their main income from oil and gas drilling.

It really doesn't matter what anyone wants. Hydrocarbons are a huge but decreasing part of the energy mix. Eventually we will not use them but it is going to take 50-100 years.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#65

Post by osigurdson »

saagarjha wrote: post #45
osigurdson wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It blows up though.

Generally it does not. Makes a lot of people upset if things don’t work out, sure.

Agree. Usually it doesn't blow up but sometimes does. When it does, all of the squirrels in the area get 3 eyes and 5 legs.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#66

Post by ceejayoz »

forward1 wrote: post #49
saagarjha wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I have any problem with people seeking to advance the scientific method but one wonders from this commenter’s other posts whether this was a legitimate desire for truth or someone just looking to poke holes in the post…

> legitimate desire for truth or someone just looking to poke holes in the post What is the difference?

Good versus bad faith.

The person looking for truth will likely go "thanks!" when receiving the clarification or additional info they were searching for.

The person looking to poke holes will move onto the next trumped-up quibble and force someone to knock that down too. Repeat ad infinitum until people get fed up and you can claim victory. (for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38968969)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

As the (ironically, probably not) Churchill quote goes: "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#67

Post by bittercynic »

janmalec wrote: post #4
yellow_lead wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there have been campaigns and articles for years attacking wind energy on the basis of protecting birds.

May I introduce you to our lord and saviour nuclear energy.

Nuclear energy is a little scary to me because I suspect it makes it more economical to build nuclear weapons.

-Many more people become atomic experts, and they may be hired by weapons programs in the future.

-We will learn how to deal with nuclear materials more efficiently - good for energy, but maybe also good for building weapons.

-With more nuclear material being manufactured for energy, will it be easier to hide weapons manufacturing in the mix?

I'd like to acknowledge that I'm speaking from ignorance here. I don't know much about nuclear technology.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#68

Post by ceejayoz »

bittercynic wrote: post #67
janmalec wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I introduce you to our lord and saviour nuclear energy.

Nuclear energy is a little scary to me because I suspect it makes it more economical to build nuclear weapons. -Many more people become atomic experts, and they may be hired by weapons programs in the future. -We will learn how to deal with nuclear materials more efficiently - good for energy, but maybe also good for building weapons. -With more nuclear material being manufactured for energy, will it be easier to hid…

Nuclear weapons aren't that tough on a nation-scale to produce. It's generally thought that places like Saudi Arabia, Japan, Australia, etc. could make a nuclear weapon in a few months if they really wanted.

The barriers are more geopolitical than anything.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#69

Post by User23 »

jeffbee wrote: post #31
CapitalistCartr wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So 2-1/2 acres plus roads, instead of 5 acres, and you address how long, which OP didn't mention, in no way disputing him. Not a basis for leading with "incredibly false."

Seriously, every hole results in an eventual dump, tank, yard, road, or some other dang thing and the net land wrecked per operation is five acres. https://maps.app.goo.gl/sKfYNokGcidWLGTQ7

If that were true then Los Angeles would be an uninhabitable wasteland. Jokes aside, it’s clearly not true.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#70

Post by forward1 »

ethanbond wrote: post #60
forward1 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yes, suggesting that we should slow/stop the transition to alternative fuel sources due to bird deaths in turbines is absolutely fossil fuel propaganda. The real danger to birds (and humans, and all other wildlife) is not flying into turbines, but systemic failure caused by extremely rapid environmental changes. You know, the kind that fossil fuel consumption is causing.

[flagged]
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